Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic-Alexa-F3 from Hannover tests

geoffboyle said:
I've just posted the first results of tests we did of the Epic, Alexa and F3

http://www.cinematography.net/epic-alexa-f3.htm

OK, now you can start telling me how I've faked the results and all the usual stuff.
Click to expand...

even though it should have been said as a joke... it is prob what will happen, the dark side of online forums.

But I really appreciate your tests, and the time you use to share with people online.
 
Basically this test says with the HDR you can now do what a camera more than 2x the price, can not do..
As if I wasn't sold before..

Edit: thank you for doing this!!!
 
Last edited:
hdr +3 is a choice that make sense because the "motion blur" is hardly to see (as i can say from my experiences)
without hdr used, no question, alexa does a great job, and no suprise here that the sensor (nativ) has bit more dynamic in the highlights. but saying this, hdr is not a gimmick, it´s a great tool and can be used as we use filters and so on to get the best image out of the situation.
i shot many stuff with hdr right now and won´t miss it anymore, it saves so much for the post without loosing time when shooting (ok, you have to push buttons 2 times ;-))
 
We tried various settings of HDR and different software.

The worst was very fast action overexposed and with HDR 6 finished in Red CineX

The best was HDR 3 finished in Da Vinci Resolve and we produced just the most gorgeous images of a guy in the shadow side of a street twirling keys with the sunny side also perfectly exposed and a lovely blue sky with fluffy white clouds. No motion artifacts whatsoever.

These tests were crucial to a decision that I made about cameras that Jarred is aware of and that you'll all know about in a few weeks!
 
In this "contest" the real winners are camera lovers. Wow. The Alexa looks so good its a bit shocking that the Epic is clearly better in DR (with HDRx) and even at 1080, carries more detail.

As we saw in the SCCE (flawed though it may have been in some respects) the F3 is remarkably good in the shadows. That said, it clips ugly compared to Alexa & Epic.

Thanks Geoff.

Cheers - #19
 
Hi Geoff,
Thanks for posting about the test.
I think they are quite positive towards the Epic so I'd be surprised if anyone complains, but as others have said this is a public forum.
Can I ask about the change in contrast on Epic Simple Blend 7-5. Looks like a grade has been applied.
Thanks
Paul
 
PaulClements said:
Can I ask about the change in contrast on Epic Simple Blend 7-5. Looks like a grade has been applied.
Thanks
Paul
Click to expand...



No no grade but it could have been finger trouble from me, I was never sure where to push the blend control!!

As I said, I have a lot to learn about HDR.
 
Why does the epic seem to blow out so much faster than it seems like it should without HDRx? Is some of that detail recoverable by setting the iso back down in the 320 or 400 range? I know that the Alexa has a little more range than epic without HDRx, but the difference seems greater than it should be in relation to my experience. No qualms with the test, just slightly surprised by the overexposure results.

Tim
 
Thanks for doing this, I've been looking for just this test for awhile. One thing I still haven't seen tested that I would be very interested in is the F3 with the S-Log Upgrade recording 10-bit ProRes 422 onto an external recorder like a KiPro Mini. I'm guessing that would fix the majority of it's ugly highlights.
 
I think a year from now it will be far easier to get great results from HDRx using tools from RED and 3rd parties. Based on some testing and experimentation with combining the two tracks in Scratch we were able to get some very good (and some rather ugly) results. This method is far too idiosyncratic for a test suite like Geoff's, but it shows the potential.

I expect the usual suspects will have some fun building interfaces and controls for managing HDRx in post. For instance I would love to have a variant of the false color mapping, or even just a matte, that would allow me to see how much of each track was used to build each pixel or region. I also envision an image version of an audio parametric equalizer where I can precisely manage the "crossover" with curves.

BTW, some of the most "filled out" (lots of code values) images we created in testing were rather flat looking, even on high end displays. Bring on the 12 stop displays please ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
I've oft wondered if Epic should have a ultra-con filter when being compared to the Alexa...

That being said, at the high end...the +8 HDR, after photoshop, looks pretty damn awesome!
 
Dear Geoff,

Is there any chance to upload us an r3d single frames of each shots?
 
geoffboyle said:
...

OK, now you can start telling me how I've faked the results and all the usual stuff.
Click to expand...

Funny how none of the Redheads complain about you not using ArriRAW for the Alexa or SLog for F-3 (which is supposed to add almost two stops of DR), LOL!.

... Apparently as long as you say our child is brilliant we LOVE you and enter a non-critical bubble. But if you say our child is not the most beautiful and brilliant, we immediately call you blind, ? the test and are appalled by the lack of fairness.

I'm not ?ing the conclusions at all, just pointing out that if similar choices were made in the other direction, people would be calling for someone's head (again), LOL!
 
One thing I find interesting, unless I'm mistaking the results...

The camerais said to have been set for HDRx +3. Totally within reason. Yet the HDRx series extends above the non-HDRx Epic series by four images - four stops extra dynamic range. Hmm...

Thanks for posting this up, Geoff. I look forward to hearing more about your secret project.
 
Peter Moretti said:
Funny how none of the Redheads complain about you not using ArriRAW for the Alexa or SLog for F-3
Click to expand...

We'll leave that for ARRI/SONY defenders.

In most of these tests we aren't interested in trying to prove our camera is better, or someone is an idiot to use anything else.

What we get frustrated by is when so called "results" are not based on correct operation.

If someone wants to say that's the case from ARRI/SONY then they can go ahead. We just want to talk about Red.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top