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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Advertising

I don't think any print ads are going to change anyone's minds.

"RED is unreliable and expensive! Oh wait, what's that, an ad in American Cinematographer!? Wow I must have heard wrong. No company could ever buy ads if their product was perfect!"

You can't advertise away ignorance in conventional marketing. And for those who are used to working with Alexa and have tested Red (most DPs and directors) it's useless to try and change their mind through advertising. "I had a Red drop frames on my last shoot, but now that I saw that print ad maybe it won't." or "I really like the image from an Alexa and it's really easy to use, but now that I've seen an ad in a magazine I realize that I was mistaken and it's actually slower and more difficult."

I'm not saying RED is any of those things. I'm just saying that advertising isn't going to do a whole lot of good in my opinion to change people's minds. Exposure isn't Red's problem, except maybe to still photographers. What Red does need is quotes from *producers* saying that their film/commercial was a breeze with Epic. I still hear people saying that the producers for Pirates wanted to switch cameras because it was costing them too much money. I've never heard a producer say that, but it's part of the rumor mill. To me that's more damaging than anything. Red needs to aggressively demonstrate that their cameras not only shot films--but that everybody was happy with the cameras in the process. I've used tools that I delivered great results with--that I was ready to punt off a cliff half way through but had to stick with it. The perfect combination is a library of really great projects that use your tools and quotes from all the departments praising how much they legitimately valued the choice.

Cebas had this problem a couple years ago. Their products were used extensively on 2012... but everything I heard among my peers was that it was the *wrong* choice for the film and that 2012 was delivered on time *in spite of Cebas' renderer* not because of it. 2012 went from in my opinion the greatest advertisement someone could ask for to the worst advertisement possible because of that discussion.
 
I'd bet one in a thousand fashion shoots are shot on an Epic. You can't use a flash. It's really a very, very strange delusion. Sorry.


I'm ripping shots from my TV commercials almost every shoot... for Billboards, Magazine spreads... you name it.
I think delusion is from people thinking its impossible and that clients & AD agencies don't know the potential of the camera to do both TV and stills together... at the same time.
Even though a purpose built CANON stills camera will give you better RAW images compared to REDs.. The Files from RED are still very very useable...

My bank book gets fatter the more I tell Agencies / Clients that the stills can be done during the Filming of there AD....
Put it this way... I did a full buy out of a couple of still images (ripped from the TV commercial) for the client, which paid one of my camera's off... BOOM!!

The EPIC just keeps on giving as far as I'm concerned....

stills_from_epic_ads.jpg
 
That's great, Mark, but...
It can't use a flash, can it? It's use on most fashion stills shoots is limited.
So I find Red's promotion of the camera for fashion is kinda weird.
 
That's great, Mark, but...
It can't use a flash, can it? It's use on most fashion stills shoots is limited.
So I find Red's promotion of the camera for fashion is kinda weird.

Respectfully I disagree with you. Who said you always have to use a flash every time? I have been to plenty of fashion shows working where the models and runway are lit by lights brought in. But, of course old school some prefer... I would rather not unless it's an effect I'm going after. But, case by case it's not so cut and dry.
 
No one says they have to use a flash every time.
But the Epic can't use them at all.
Is there a single fashion photographer who's sold all their stills cameras and flash kits to fund an Epic purchase?
Probably not, unless they were planning on quitting fashion stills.
 
No one says they have to use a flash every time.
But is there a single fashion photographer on Reduser who's sold all their stills cameras and flash kits to fund an Epic purchase?
Probably not, unless they were planning on quitting fashion stills and moving into motion.


I did.
 
That's great, Mark, but...
It can't use a flash, can it? It's use on most fashion stills shoots is limited.
So I find Red's promotion of the camera for fashion is kinda weird.

I never really used FLASH anyway for Fashion... I liked to use HMI's in my Stills days... FLASH was to hard sometimes, I liked see what I shooting, so i dropped flash for HMI's... But that was just me. Im sure alot of people use flash still.
 
Ok. You used HMIs.
...
But...

Not a single person who makes their living shooting fashion stills has thrown their other stuff away to shoot only on the Epic.

It's like distinguishing between a doc and a narrative... Images are images... Natural light is beautiful in the Spring and Summer. HMI's are great, and I don't wanna just do fashion photography but I bet you if I did, I would used a flash sparingly. I like a large soft source that I can steal light from. HMI's are perfect.
 
Well there's two. but I'm talking people who make their living shooting fashion stills. Ketch was also into 3D and features., and Paul did NYU.
Does Ketch not own a stills camera?

AFAIK Ketch did mainly stills.
But I might have misunderstood the whole thing... :)
 
I don't hink Ketch got into Reds to shoot fashion stills.
I'm talking people who make their living shooting fashion stills. Ketch is also into 3D and features, and Paul did NYU. Website called motionpicturecinematography.com. :)

Yeah, I also did a Screenwriting degree prior to my Masters @ NYU, and a general degree in filmmaking as well. Made some money on pictures in between. Sorry if you don't like the name of my site I like it and my clients like it.
 
Yeah, I also did a Screenwriting degree prior to my Masters @ NYU, and a general degree in filmmaking as well. Made some money on pictures in between. Sorry if you don't like the name of my site I like it and my clients like it.

Yikes.
Did I say I din't like the name of your site?
My point was, you're not promoting yourself as a fashion stills photographer.
Or at least, Fashion Stills is not why you bought the epic.
 
Yikes.
Did I say I din't like the name of your site?
My point was, you're not promoting yourself as a fashion stills photographer.
Or at least, Fashion Stills is not why you bought the epic.


In am not actively shooting for fashion. My point is simple if it looks good it is good. My Grandfather coined the term, there are only two kinds of music, good and bad.

- Paul Ellington
 
Mark. I hope you have been drinking as you are not making very much sense.
 
LOL
Presence and quick solutions to defer FUD, beats any advertizing budget, is my guess...

After all RED is not a consumer driven product, like Oakly (at least to some extent) is.

bingo.
 
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