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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Advertising

Check out this months PDN. Or HD Video Pro.. or Digital Photo Pro.. Plus a few other print magazines. We are out there.. if you guys arn't seeing it.. then we are targeting the right people :)

We would prefer not to double the price of cameras just to pay for massive random acts of marketing to customers that already know who we are.

Redbull costs 2 cents to make... They sell it for 2 bucks because 1 buck of that is paying for marketing. OK for soft drinks.. not OK for companies that are dedicated to give their customers the best product possible for the best price possible. It makes companies very rich... but not so good for the customers.
 
Jarred Land said:
Check out this months PDN. Or HD Video Pro.. or Digital Photo Pro.. Plus a few other print magazines. We are out there.. if you guys arn't seeing it.. then we are targeting the right people :)

We would prefer not to double the price of cameras just to pay for massive random acts of marketing to customers that already know who we are.

Redbull costs 2 cents to make... They sell it for 2 bucks because 1 buck of that is paying for marketing. OK for soft drinks.. not OK for companies that are dedicated to give their customers the best product possible for the best price possible. It makes companies very rich... but not so good for the customers.
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Well I absolutely do strongly believe that Advertisement is a critical and needed, in fact much needed tool of any company, even for RED, but I do agree with your statement and we sure all, current and future customers prefer of a softer more controlled and direct form of advertising with contained prices on the goods, then a massive advertising campaign so to then inflate to absurdity the prices of the Goods, just like you said, Red Bull does it, and guess what? Arri, Sony etc. do it too... ;)
 
Jarred Land said:
Check out this months PDN. Or HD Video Pro.. or Digital Photo Pro.. Plus a few other print magazines. We are out there.. if you guys arn't seeing it.. then we are targeting the right people :)
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Good article on HD Video Pro too ... http://www.hdvideopro.com/gear/cameras/scarlet-fever.html .

I think the Onus for advertising is on Red users - with a great camera at a reasonable price ... RED has done their job. It's up to us to create compelling content - that's what will ultimately sell camera's.
 
Jarred Land said:
Check out this months PDN. Or HD Video Pro.. or Digital Photo Pro.. Plus a few other print magazines. We are out there.. if you guys arn't seeing it.. then we are targeting the right people :)

We would prefer not to double the price of cameras just to pay for massive random acts of marketing to customers that already know who we are.

Redbull costs 2 cents to make... They sell it for 2 bucks because 1 buck of that is paying for marketing. OK for soft drinks.. not OK for companies that are dedicated to give their customers the best product possible for the best price possible. It makes companies very rich... but not so good for the customers.
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YES YES ... :0)
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Like all good things in life, I don't think Epic needs to be advertised.
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I agree completely.

I never paid for advertising for my company and I think it paid of well we focus on doing good work and that brings us more work. For every add RED puts out less coins goes into the actuall cameras. RED cameras are not for everyone, old traditional DOP's that listen to rumors is not so good to have in your client base... better to look into forward thinking peoples needs.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I agree completely.

I never paid for advertising for my company and I think it paid of well we focus on doing good work and that brings us more work. For every add RED puts out less coins goes into the actuall cameras. RED cameras are not for everyone, old traditional DOP's that listen to rumors is not so good to have in your client base... better to look into forward thinking peoples needs.
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It's not DPs you have to persuade, it's producers. RED got high fashion and big budget Hollywood to use the Epic, now is the time to pound that message home. Take any doubt about RED out of producers' minds.

The next phase is to showcase small budget stuff getting through post easily and cheaply. Show that the RED workflow is flexible. That's the harder thing to do.

All of us here at reduser already know this. Now it's time to spread the word to those in the dark. Advertising is necessary, but it's not like they have to spend millions of dollars on it. Just a few select target ads
 
Brad Webb said:
It's not DPs you have to persuade, it's producers.
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On this side of the world, or at least here in Italy, from what I've experienced, actually some producers are more willing than DPs to try RED for their projects. There are more producers owning the camera than DPs. I'm pretty sure ads wouldn't change the situation. A not-so-good reputation is a hard thing to fight. One of the most acclaimed movies of the year here, "Caesar must die", winner of Golden Bear in Berlin and David Di Donatello for best film, was shot on Red, but things haven't changed. Less than a month ago I was at a rental house doing some tests and I heard of a production that asked for Alexa, couldn't get it and went with Canon 5Ds even though Red Ones were available.
It's not a situation you change with a couple (or a hundred) ads, and as I said before, why would Red want to change when they seem pretty happy and successful with their approach?
 
One of the best kept secrets in advertising is that at least 80% of it is ineffective - wrong audience, wrong message, crap ads etc.

In a small vertical market like this, Red doesn't need to advertise at all. Every movie made with RED is an ad for the camera, and there's no way that RED could meet that kind of budget spend.

A strong PR unit is all that RED needs, and I'm pretty sure that there's already one in place.
 
Paul Russell said:
A strong PR unit is all that RED needs, and I'm pretty sure that there's already one in place.
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Not disagreeing with you, really, but I think that if they had to change something (and I'm not saying they should feel the need to do it), the priority should go to some form of "official" local support (as in RED Italy, RED France, RED Germany, RED Australia, RED Brasil, etc), just like the other guys have (mainly Panavision and Arri).
 
Mark Toia said:
VHS Vs BETACAM.....

Solid Marketing and perception made the worst of these two win.....

RED should spend wisely and smash the competition in marketing.

Or they could end up being betacam.

REDBULL sales are MEGA!!!! . Massive marketing campaigns.. taste like shit and gives people heart attacks and strokes...

I work in the advertising world at a ery hi level. I see this shit going on daily.
Perception is everything.
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I think you mean Betamax - Betacam was the most successful professional format EVER. Before Betacam Sony was a very minor player in the pro market.

BTW VHS vs Betamax was won mainly as a kind of workflow issue - a normal VHS or Betamax tape was about $20 ($53 in 2012 dollars) and you could get a whole movie on 1 VHS where it usually took two of the smaller/shorter Betamax tapes. And you could slow VHS down and get six hours as well.

Until red speeds up normal workflow with an economical ($1000 or so) thunderbolt "rocket" module there will be continued resistance to the .r3d format for the vast majority of production.
 
Jarred Land said:
Check out this months PDN. Or HD Video Pro.. or Digital Photo Pro.. Plus a few other print magazines. We are out there.. if you guys arn't seeing it.. then we are targeting the right people :)

We would prefer not to double the price of cameras just to pay for massive random acts of marketing to customers that already know who we are.

Redbull costs 2 cents to make... They sell it for 2 bucks because 1 buck of that is paying for marketing. OK for soft drinks.. not OK for companies that are dedicated to give their customers the best product possible for the best price possible. It makes companies very rich... but not so good for the customers.
Click to expand...

To True.... :)
Thanks Jarred.
 
Jarred I appreciate your comments about how ads would very well cause higher prices. I know Ted has done a great job to get the word out these past 5 plus years. I don't perceive a problem in the feature market. But as other threads have recently pointed out some of us have hit walls with producers, directors and post on TV episodic and Commercials.
Thought some ads might help.
Mea culpa.

Going to buy some Photo magazines now.

Peter
 
Michael Ou said:
The best way for us Redusers to be proactive and address any "advertising" concerns is to make the next wave of films to rock this industry. For the first time ever, anyone from a beginner, to a seasoned pro can afford the most advanced camera system on earth. Red has opened the door and I can't wait to see what and who will walk through it. Sure, there's stiff competition spreading FUD all around, but in the end, this war will be won in the trenches, by the next wave of brilliant new filmakers, and Red has seen fit to arm them with the best tools available. Epic and Scarlet has just been released into the wild, thousands of new "films" are being made as we speak.

The Beta/VHS example is a great one, because what won that battle was not advertising, but economics, and perhaps with a bit of help from another little industry called porn. lol Now when it comes to institutional support, ie studios, rental houses and universities, once they see all their Alexas needing replacement in a year or so (whenever Arri decides to jump ship and catch up with a 4,6 whatever "K" camera), it will be a bitter pill to swallow. Especially when those Epics they also invested in are not only still cutting edge, but can be upgraded for only 6 grand! Now this is monumentally more significant to the indie production, where these economies of scale can mean the difference between making the film or not, paying the bills or not, success or failure, life or death (yeah, I know, tad melodramatic).

But not everyone can be the next Kubrick, for the rest of us, I recommend a more grassroots viral campaign to spread the truth via internet. Post those comparison videos, tell us your experiences, debunk the myths! It's not only effective enough to topple governments, but the best part is, its free.
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The trenches indeed. I think this is an excellent post.
 
Francesco,

We understand this that is why there is RED Europe LTD, RED Japan and coming soon RED India, as well as the Certified Service Centers we have partnered up with Sim Video (Canada), Geko-Cam (Germany) and RED Square (Russia) along with a few others in the works. We have come a long way in only 5 years and we will only get better we just need to make sure we plan accordingly. We would love to open up operations over night but it’s just not that easy ;)



Francesco Bonomo said:
Not disagreeing with you, really, but I think that if they had to change something (and I'm not saying they should feel the need to do it), the priority should go to some form of "official" local support (as in RED Italy, RED France, RED Germany, RED Australia, RED Brasil, etc), just like the other guys have (mainly Panavision and Arri).
Click to expand...
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Jarred I appreciate your comments about how ads would very well cause higher prices. I know Ted has done a great job to get the word out these past 5 plus years. I don't perceive a problem in the feature market. But as other threads have recently pointed out some of us have hit walls with producers, directors and post on TV episodic and Commercials.
Thought some ads might help.
Mea culpa.

Going to buy some Photo magazines now.

Peter
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Let me chime in as well, Kodak, Arri and such are also targeting Producers, going as far as coming to the school to try and set up their way as the best way straight out of Uni.
 
michaelk@RED said:
Francesco,

We understand this that is why there is RED Europe LTD, RED Japan and coming soon RED India, as well as the Certified Service Centers we have partnered up with Sim Video (Canada), Geko-Cam (Germany) and RED Square (Russia) along with a few others in the works. We have come a long way in only 5 years and we will only get better we just need to make sure we plan accordingly. We would love to open up operations over night but it’s just not that easy ;)
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Michael, I totally understand that and I can only imagine how incredibly difficult the logistics of such a thing might be. I wasn't suggesting it should be the #1 priority for your company, I was just saying that at least on this little part of the world, for the majority of professionals, something like a "RED Italy" would be much more important than any ad or internet forum. Personally, if I have a problem on a RED shoot, usually the answer is two clicks away on my iPhone, either in the pdf manual or on Reduser, but I can see for some other people that's not enough when they've been used to a different way of doing things since the beginning of times (and that includes not only camera departments, but also producers and post-production folks).
Thanks for taking the time to comment on this issue, Michael!
 
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