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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Advertising

P

Peter Lyons Collister ASC

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Today I was on the DGA (Directors Guild of America) Members website and there was an ad for the Alexa right there on the main members page.

I am curious if people think RED should start to place ads on the web and also in magazines. I know Jim and Jarred stuck their toes into the RED ad business with the Vogue spread (and it was a great spread).

Iknow that there has been a concept of no marketing in the conventional sense but perhaps it is time.

How do you all feel about this?

Cheers,

Peter
 
Eventually they will have to, and probably sooner rather than later. Eventually Red is going to have to take charge and start shaping their own image. A big reason to start is to dispel the whole Red takes too long in post nonsense.
 
Funny you bring that up Peter, as part of my research for my doctorate paper I interviewed a lot of filmmakers about their opinions on digital camera systems....you wouldn't believe the amount of half knowledge and straight out "wrong facts" and hogwash some of these filmmakers had about RED....even very experienced DOPs had information and opinions about RED that were simply speaking, complete nonsense. A lot of them hadn't even worked first hand with the RED cameras or gotten in touch with its workflow. I was quite shocked to see how much gossip there was out there amongst professionals. so to answer shortly...YES unfortunately a lot fo people still dont understand how awesome and amazing RED is and need to be educated better.
 
It's interesting. There is a whole generation of new filmmakers that are shooting on Epic and Scarlet now...something Alexa can't touch at its price point. They will grow into careers that don't have those misconceptions, and there will be an awful lot of them.
 
I believe REDis thinking about everything. But advertising, they definitely thought about, from the format 4K baseline debayer, to the look and brand of the gear... Which is also a reason it's been so divisive... I don't know why though. I mean I do RED is whoppin' everybody but for those who want to pay out the nose for less performance, maybe like ARRI better for whatever, hey if you like it buy it, not for me. My belief is that over-exposing one-self in this case, particularly around chatty camera folks could maybe not be the best idea. The camera speaks for itself... I tried to get NYU to buy RED EPIC and Scarlet Cameras... The balked until the Chair bought two Epics for Singapore and two for NYU NYC Grad Film.

Mr. Jannard branded Oakley, when the time is right he will do more, it could be around the corner but I kind of like people underrating my camera and being surprised when they see just how much control it gives you over the image.

Hope you are well.

- PE
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Today I was on the DGA (Directors Guild of America) Members website and there was an ad for the Alexa right there on the main members page.

I am curious if people think RED should start to place ads on the web and also in magazines. I know Jim and Jarred stuck their toes into the RED ad business with the Vogue spread (and it was a great spread).

Iknow that there has been a concept of no marketing in the conventional sense but perhaps it is time.

How do you all feel about this?

Cheers,

Peter
Click to expand...


I fill that RED should at last enter the Advertisement full trust!!

Again, I see here in my neck of the wood across the big pond, HUGE Alexa's posters and all of the Films shot on it, and all the Directors using it, and this is what every one sees.


RED has a great team, and I truly believe that they can surely do a great marketing for Print, as they already demonstrated with their first ever add on Vogue, however it is my strong opinion, that they could start printing adds were it shows the Camera it self in various configuration on each add different the the other, and also list Films the camera has been used to make them, and the Directors names that are using it.

It needs to be about advertisement for the Camera in CINEMA use, and also for Print in Fashion, not the other way around.
 
Like all good things in life, I don't think Epic needs to be advertised.
 
My 2c...

I think RED has been rather good at the loyality "mission" thing that covered their 1st big market through this place.
But RU and the 4k+ mantra is also what is currently REDs nit-so-good points for PR into some markets.
Still, I don't think a campaign can "fix" that without partly alianating some of its base users.

And the cameras has shown itself to "quietly" trickle down to more and more productions just through their merit.
That's probably the safest bet still.

And after all, the Indie Crowd is sooooo many more than the studios. From a purely business POV, it's not a bad idea to entertain the "dreamers" over the "realists".

RED is into selling vision and values beyond the camera itself, for better or worse.
I can get a bit upset about that at times, but it does seem to work rather well...

I can see - from a marketing message POV - that the two userbases can be hard to communicate with simultaniously.

If the message wasn't simply:
"Changing how films are made since 2008"

Underplaying it's "newness", and still taking credit for the impact RED has had.

But I'd at least waited untill dragon and a 4:3 sensor was out.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Sorry Pawel but I respectfully disagree... No matter how good a product is, if people don't know about it, its just as if was not good product at all... ;)
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True, but if someone doesn't know about the Epic by now I'd say, they are probably demented, blind or retarded....or not associated with film industry at all :)
 
Pawel Achtel said:
True, but if someone doesn't know about the Epic by now I'd say, they are probably demented, blind or retarded.
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Word!

Of those choosing Alexa around here, lack of knowledge about the RED cameras is about 0% of the reasons given for not using them...

The main reasons for choosing Alexa over Epic seems to be

• Ergonomics
• Menusystem and operator comfort
• Built like a camera and not like a breadbox
• Bomb EVF (old)
• 4:3 sensor for anamorph
• Excellent as a RAW cam
• Prores/DNx
• In Arri we trust

Only the last two argument are really silly and emotional/sometimes based on misconseptions

Better to argue about image quality and flexibility in practical terms + updating stuff like the EVF (which RED has done!!!), than to join the "mine is bigger than yours" battle, as Sony can allways pull thatone off these days (based on the numbergame)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Word!

Of those choosing Alexa around here, lack of knowledge about the RED cameras is about 0% of the reasons given for not using them...
Click to expand...

Again, I agree, but they do know about the Epic. They just chose not to use it for one reason or another, which I don't think will change as a result of advertising. Perhaps they like to find out the hard way...
 
Pawel Achtel said:
True, but if someone doesn't know about the Epic by now I'd say, they are probably demented, blind or retarded....or not associated with film industry at all :)
Click to expand...

Who doesn't know about Coca Cola or Nike? Do they still advertise... Hell yea! More than most.

Jim will know all about marketing from his Oakley days, they were a branding phenomenon. I see a similar approach... Getting the products in the hands (or on the heads, in Oakley's case) of the most respected, famous people in the industries they were targeting. Now that Peter Jackson etc are using the REDs on well known films, I would expect to see advertisements trumpeting this.
 
VHS Vs BETACAM.....

Solid Marketing and perception made the worst of these two win.....

RED should spend wisely and smash the competition in marketing.

Or they could end up being betacam.

REDBULL sales are MEGA!!!! . Massive marketing campaigns.. taste like shit and gives people heart attacks and strokes...

I work in the advertising world at a ery hi level. I see this shit going on daily.
Perception is everything.
 
Mark Toia said:
V

REDBULL sales are MEGA!!!! . Massive marketing campaigns.. taste like shit and gives people heat attacks and strokes...
Click to expand...

HAHAHA best comparison ever, I always say nothing good ever came from austria (and with me being swiss and the swiss and austrians hating each other im allowed to make this Sstatement)......Red Bull, Cottage Cheese, Adolf Hitler...all austrian inventions, all bad ^^
 
The quality of Red speaks for itself. Now that Red workflow has come into it's own, I think word of mouth will be the most effective and best advertising. Red is leading the pack in price point, features, quality, customer loyalty, expandability, durability, etc, etc. Who else has sold 10,000 professional cinema cameras in 4 years? Indie film makers are now moving up in the industry and taking Red with them along for the ride because they know, trust and understand the camera/system. Producers that understand this will survive, those that refuse to let go of predjudice and old ideas will wither on the vine. I never thought I would ever buy a Chevy because they were made like junk a few years back. Just rented one and changed my mind. So it goes. Red's advertising has been us inspite of the growing pains. Best advertising in the world.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
True, but if someone doesn't know about the Epic by now I'd say, they are probably demented, blind or retarded....or not associated with film industry at all :)
Click to expand...


Ha ha, you'll be surprised how many of them I came and continue to come across in my travels, and around the corner here at home in Italy and all over Europe... ;)

They either don't know about it, or simply don't know what it can really do, and think that the Alexa is a 4k Professional camera and the Epic a 2k Indie camera.
 
Maybe when a consumer model Red Ray comes out, Red should do mass marketing. If they can get that Red-suing-Arri thing into the forefront of the trade news, that will be some of the best advertising possible for their cameras. Hits the targeted audience.

For now, Redusers are some of the best advertisers possible. I recently encountered a director who had heard of Epic but until he held one of mine, he was dismissive of it for his own use. After a few conversations he already can see why Red is the better option than the Canon 300 or Sony F3 he was looking at. A short 30 second ad or even a print ad probably wouldn't have swayed him. Demonstrations seem to work best. I wonder how many camera sales Ted is responsible for?
 
I think they should sponsor a race car team, tennis matches, mma, change the blue Angels to the red angels, superbowl, RED LA coliseum,boat racing, womens Volleyball,...f^&*8IT everywhere I look it should say RED
 
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