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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Element Technica Arri & 1030 Compatible Oconnor Dovetail Sneek Peak

Finner said:
Everything I have seen and used of Element Technica gear is high quality cine level gear. If you are use to and expect arri/panavision/atton style equipment then Element Technica is the choice you will want to make for your red accessories.
Click to expand...

What Finnner Said. Their stuff is great.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
planetearth said:
If this Arri/Element Technica dovetail shaved off the top part (slide in connection part to the Arri plate), this could be a great 1030 adapter plate for the Red Base Production Pack - just remove the Base Shoulder Dovetail and replace it with this ET 1030 dovetail and you have a lower profile and you may lose a little weight too. Yes/no?
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From what I can see from Tonaci pictures, using the ET dovetail & ET 19mm base plate over the Red bottom plate and o'connor quick release,

I'm....

- Adding 3.5cm in height and 1kg in weight.
- Losing 4.5kg (10lbs) in payload capacity of o'connor head
- Increasing cost by $900
- Losing Quick release option

......but gaining horizontal travel for easier balancing.

I think planetearth's comment warrants discussion/investigation by grip shop/ET/etc.

Dave,
 
david farland said:
From what I can see from Tonaci pictures, using the ET dovetail & ET 19mm base plate over the Red bottom plate and o'connor quick release,

I'm....

- Adding 3.5cm in height and 1kg in weight.
- Losing 4.5kg (10lbs) in payload capacity of o'connor head
- Increasing cost by $900
- Losing Quick release option

......but gaining horizontal travel for easier balancing.

I think planetearth's comment warrants discussion/investigation by grip shop/ET/etc.

Dave,
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I follow you...

It seems that the red bottom plate adds quite a bit of height when the shoulder dovetail is used for it's 3/8-16 tie down. Net height and CG of camera seems much lower to me with ET setup vs Red Production pack.

Does the little O'Conner 1030 sliding top work in the same way as a 2575 ? It works as a quick release very safe solid and fast.

Would be cool to see it side by side... and then throw it all on a scale.

I'm not sure if what Planet Earth is suggesting would work, because the Red uses a lock in the "/shoulder dovetail" ( bottom ) and the Arri System uses a friction grab on the top "Sliding Balance Plate".



Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
There is little if any difference between the height of the Red sliding base plate and the ET Arri base and dovetail. When ET is done hogging out material from the dovetail it will be considerably lighter than it looks now. My guess is there will be less than a pound difference between the Arri base/dovetail combo and the Red base, shoulder pad/ quick release assembly. ET makes a lot of Steadicam Accs. trust me, they know how to put gear on a diet.
 
Here's a photo of the ET Arri base on a standard Arri dovetail Vs. the Red base with the shoulder pad and an O'connor QR Plate
redVet.jpg

The ET Arri/Dovertail is slightly lower.
 
My ET base/dovetail is 1" lower than the Red base and shoulder pad.

and no loss of quick release as the 2060 quick releases from the dovetail plate...not to mention a much more stable base.
 
I guessing we're talking about the 1030 on this thread, yeah?

I'm confused Evin, as your dovetail doesn't look the same as Tonaci's photos of the Element Technica dovetail. Maybe ETs is trying to avoid the rosettas on the 1030's?
Now if I've goofed on you need the Red shoulder mount to attached to tripod plate...well stupid me!
Getting back to planetearth's suggestion about having the dovetail slot directly into the Red base plate. It sounds sweet. I hate having to buy shit and find there was a simpler/better/cheaper option!

Dave,
 
the dovetail is the plate on the bottom...just a simple plate w/ dovetail on top.

The Arri base plate has the rosetta and it is on the opposite side- not visible in Evins photo.

and yes, the Red bottom plate requires either the cheese plate or the shoulder dovetail to attach to the qr plate.
 
Brook Willard said:
So who likes the "light red" witness mark on Blair's camera? :)
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"light red". I know pink when I see it! Hey, maybe that can be a future camera from RED. Then we could have RED, Scarlett and PINK.
 
david farland said:
I guessing we're talking about the 1030 on this thread, yeah?

I'm confused Evin, as your dovetail doesn't look the same as Tonaci's photos of the Element Technica dovetail. Maybe ETs is trying to avoid the rosettas on the 1030's?
Now if I've goofed on you need the Red shoulder mount to attached to tripod plate...well stupid me!
Getting back to planetearth's suggestion about having the dovetail slot directly into the Red base plate. It sounds sweet. I hate having to buy shit and find there was a simpler/better/cheaper option!

Dave,
Click to expand...

The ARRI dovetail shown in Evin's photo the the "full sized", standard ARRI dovetail plate for use on an O'Connor 2060 or 2575 head. The ET plate is a custom made plate to allow the same functionality on an O'Connor 1030 head.
 
Guess what I'm getting at (and I think David is on the same page) is to make a custom version of the 1030 dovetail - don't make it so it needs to connect to the Arri plate, make it like the cheeseplate (which can attach to the bottom of the Red). Remove the Base Shoulder Dovetail and replace it with this custom cheeseplate/if you will/1030 dovetail (attaching it directly to the Red Bottom Plate). This way you buy the Red Base Production Pack at a great price, you're not buying a bunch of overlapping items, you're lower profile, and lighter weight.

If this can be done - sounds like a plan to me.

Cheers,
Dale
 
dove4.jpg

There is a little more material here than on the standard Arri dovetail allowing for the O'connor's pan handle rosette (David's note) but it still seems lower or the same as the QR system thickness so overall would still be lower.
 
planetearth said:
Guess what I'm getting at (and I think David is on the same page) is to make a custom version of the 1030 dovetail - don't make it so it needs to connect to the Arri plate, make it like the cheeseplate (which can attach to the bottom of the Red). Remove the Base Shoulder Dovetail and replace it with this custom cheeseplate/if you will/1030 dovetail (attaching it directly to the Red Bottom Plate). This way you buy the Red Base Production Pack at a great price, you're not buying a bunch of overlapping items, you're lower profile, and lighter weight.

If this can be done - sounds like a plan to me.

Cheers,
Dale
Click to expand...

The problem is that the Arri standard is different than the Red dovetail. And if you made one of these with the Red standard then it wouldn't work with the ET Arri base for which it is designed. ET may be interested in making a Red dovetail verison but it would have to have the locking mechanics of the Red dovetail and would probably be more expensive and less universal. The whole point of this is to integrate seamlessly into an Arri 15mm offset dominated production environment (IE the west coast of the US). If you wanted to use this base with the 19mm system forgo the basic production pack and buy the 19mm ET arri base.
 
Evin Grant said:
The problem is that the Arri standard is different than the Red dovetail. And if you made one of these with the Red standard then it wouldn't work with the ET Arri base for which it is designed. ET may be interested in making a Red dovetail verison but it would have to have the locking mechanics of the Red dovetail and would probably be more expensive and less universal. The whole point of this is to integrate seamlessly into an Arri 15mm offset dominated production environment (IE the west coast of the US). If you wanted to use this base with the 19mm system forgo the basic production pack and buy the 19mm ET arri base.
Click to expand...

I completely hear you Evin. Toronto is also a 15mm town, so the big debate that ruminates in my head is "do I go 15mm/do I go 19mm". But, what I'm mainly focussing on with this proposal is lightening the load, lowering profile, controlling costs, and maintaining as much interchangeability with all the Red components.

Cheers,
Dale
 
The 15mm or 19mm debacle aside, I’d like to know what was Red’s reason to go with a different dovetail dimensions & locking mechanism to the Arri 19mm standard?

Also what is the difference in the Red bottom plate dovetail recess measurement and the Arri dovetail measurement?
 
I'm curious about that too...
I had a spare, brand-new Arri BP-9 and dovetail that I was planning to use with my Red camera. Now I hear that the hieght of the optical center will be wrong if I use this very stock item. Why why why... :(
Harry
 
It's so cool that a few guys thought this up and suggested that Element should make it and here it is in metal - soon to be a product. We live in amazing times.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
forgive my ignorance but isnt the whole point of a dovetail to allow it to shoulder mount?

The ET set-up doesnt seem to have any pads for the shoulder - wouldn't that think hurt? Also if you needed the rods to extend to the back of the red (to mount cradle etc) then it looks like the rods are lower than the dovetail - again making it not practical for a quick release shoulder mount.

i must be missing something.
 
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