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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC3 Wish list

Internal ND

More power to the lens mount, for powering the Fujinon Cabrio with motors

Support for PL lens metadata (this used to work back in the day of Epic. What happened??)

High-bright 7” LCD

Work with Preston to build an MDR module

Work with Teradek to build a better Bolt module (with LCD, EVF and SDI support)

4K HDMI output or 4K module
 
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Wishes:
- Full wireless integration with Hydrogen - monitoring and camera control - ability to connect multiple Hydrogens.
- Power port on brain itself - no need for any rear module for lightweight gimbal/drone builds.
- Internal ND - enough stops for 2.8-4 outdoors depending on how sensitive the next sensors are.
- Shallow flange depth - more options with optics
- Eliminate the need for different "OLPFs" - STD made LL obsolete in my eyes because it's clean enough, I'd love to not have to switch to STH when shooting outdoors at a deep stop - if the only time I swap the back filter is for creative reasons like the KipperTie filters, then we're in a good place.
- Rolling shutter - minimized artifacts or none
- Better DR and more total DR - fewer color shifts on over/underexposure
- Displays - Better resolutions, brighter, more color accurate - Eliminate 4.7" and replace with Hydrogen
- Menus - more intuitive and much more snappy.
- Color - An officially supported picture profile that aims to evoke emotion rather than accuracy - dare I say Kodak Vision3-ish - philmColor collab? Light Iron collab? Hell, Kodak collab?
- Framerates - 120fps in full sensor readout - the less cropping I have to do, the better. I only want to crop if it's a conscious creative decision.
- Media - Less expensive
- Sensor Calibration - either faster operation or less need to do it so often.
- Quick settings via buttons a la Sidekick or Teradek ACI included
- 4K monitoring output

What I don't necessarily need right now:
- More resolution (8K is plenty for me for probably 5-10 more years)
- Framerates beyond 120fps
- Larger recording formats
- Audio options
 
My number one concern with DSMC3 is it having a unified body all throughout the product life of that generation. This DSMC2 generation has been so janky for me: starting with a Weapon Magnesium-for it to basically be out of the product lineup within the first year of its existence and had to go to Helium Weapon-for that to all go towards the half priced "DSMC2 Unified"-all within 3-4 years. That's a lot of changes in one "generation" of cameras. Red should've had a clear lineup for itself and customers from the beginning, I can't help but feel that it's us early adopters who paid for that and that's left a sour taste in my mouth. I like where everything's at now though, and I totally understand why Red did this, just could've been handled better. I do feel that it's way too soon for a DSMC3, with 8k resolutions do we really need even more under the hood? Just keep releasing different sensors for different applications and updating things and color sciences for the next 5 years or so and I'd be more then happy.

Anyway:
-Internal ND
-Higher Framerates (literally from 5k down we've been locked to the same framerates as the Epic MX cameras were way back when)
-A more aesthetically appealing color science. I love what IPP2 has done for us and would like to see it continued, but would't mind a more nicer picture straight out the camera like Alexa has to choose from too.
-Less expensive media, why these mini-mags cost so much for so little space for as long as they've been out?
-All newer sensors to have dual sensitivity like Gemini, maybe as a cheaper option not to have dual sensitivity?
-4k monitoring
-Quieter fans, sure its better than DSMC1s but it being quieter sure would be nice.
 
Global shutter. Dynamic range that actually matches advertised specs. Sorry, that'll probably start fights. I'll just say better dynamic range : ).
 
1) UHD/4K live monitoring
2) Support for 1:1 zoom on selected monitor paths even during recording
3) 120FPS at 8KHD, 400FPS at 4KHD
4) Next generation media bay/form factor to support 600MB/s writes to higher capacity cards
5) Enough power to the lens collar to support zooms like the Cabrio
6) Even if it can't be functional immediately, put in the circuitry/pins to support 8K output
7) Expand tethered recording beyond GigE to USB-C or other high speed connection
8) Better rear module options direct from RED or 3rd parties.

Mini rant - I respect how much lead time it can take to bring a module to market. That said, every DSMC2 rear module I've seen so far has too many compromises. IMO, for DSMC3 to be the step forward we're hoping for, RED and it's partners need to start working on rear modules concurrently with brain development so they are beta tested and ready to ship in quantity when the brain is ready.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Mini rant - I respect how much lead time it can take to bring a module to market. That said, every DSMC2 rear module I've seen so far has too many compromises. IMO, for DSMC3 to be the step forward we're hoping for, RED and it's partners need to start working on rear modules concurrently with brain development so they are beta tested and ready to ship in quantity when the brain is ready.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

You mentioned this in the audio improvements thread and I think you have a point.
I do kind of feel that RED's 1st attempt at working with 3rd parties at a deep hardware level was a bit bumpy.
As you stated, early engagement with 3rd parties would be a good approach for the future.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
1) 120 fps at full sensor readout
2) faster boot time
3) internal ND
4) Hydrogen LCD integration
5) no black shading process after firmware upgrades
6) focus peaking in color CHECK!
7) improved internal scratch mics
8) smaller/thinner audio module with dual XLR outputs and better preamps
9) lighter overall weight
10) snappier menus
11) improved WiFi
12) cover/lock for Mini-mags on brain
13) multiple LCD lemo contacts on brain (no need for lemo adaptors)
14) LCD cables with rotatable lemo contacts
15) 1:1 zoom when recording
 
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Samir Patel said:
Bit confused so is DSMC3 hydrogen one based or are we talking a more conventional body like DSMC2 but with more features?
Click to expand...

Talking about future red camera bodies and possibilities.
 
Slow motion:

To keep image noise down in high frame rate, and to reduce the power demands of processing 8K - perhaps Red could consider a hardware backed mode into the next DSMC3 sensor - a High_Speed mode in which 8k (FF) is down converted to 4K at the start of the image processing?

- The whole 8K sensor would be used (ie no light lost when windowing to 4K).
- 1/4 the pixels to process and so less power requirements to process and store.
- Better SNR = Better image compression
- No windowing = no lens changes or optical changes in high speed.
- If the DSMC2 can process 8K at 60fps. DSMC3 Downsamplng to 4K could make 240fps more attainable.

AJ
 
For me I hope there's more new modules and improvement-, at least for the next 2 or 3 years- to the current DSMC2! I have purchased Monstro really recently and would love to have the system fully optimised to the maximum and benefiting from new breakthroughs well before a new DSMC3 comes. I'm sure it will come, but love the current DSMC2 design and I think more development could go into the system. Its still leading edge, and modularity would hopefully keep it current and the upgrade less expensive for us current owners/users!
 
Brian Timmons said:
You mentioned this in the audio improvements thread and I think you have a point.
I do kind of feel that RED's 1st attempt at working with 3rd parties at a deep hardware level was a bit bumpy.
As you stated, early engagement with 3rd parties would be a good approach for the future.
Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
Click to expand...

Jarred publicly committing to DSMC2 through 2020 is a double edged sword. I think drawing a line in the sand was the right move, but it did put an expiration date on starting dev on anything for DSMC2. When you look at what PV did with the DXLs the potential is obvious.

FWIW, I'd be ready to drop $10-25K on a rear module and AKS system that provides a decent sub-set of what the DXL offers. For years I've been pitching my "shell" concept that houses wired and wireless I/O, legit audio, power, MDR, etc in an ergonomic form factor that sits balanced on the shoulder with most connections internal. In a perfect world you would only need a JetPack (or similar) for gimbal/drone applications, the "shell" for everything else and swapping would be a 60 second task in the field. Am I the only RedUser who wants this kind of functionality?

Cheers - #19
 
Blair, actually I think DSMC3 probably will keep rear modules compatibility...

I think most innovations should come to the right side expansion modules where the sidekick and side handle now sits.

It could be probably compatible as far as form factor and dimensions but I think it should include a power connection too,
so the brain should be able to power side modules like focus controllers, all done internally without the need of lemo external cables...
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Jarred publicly committing to DSMC2 through 2020 is a double edged sword. I think drawing a line in the sand was the right move, but it did put an expiration date on starting dev on anything for DSMC2. When you look at what PV did with the DXLs the potential is obvious.

FWIW, I'd be ready to drop $10-25K on a rear module and AKS system that provides a decent sub-set of what the DXL offers. For years I've been pitching my "shell" concept that houses wired and wireless I/O, legit audio, power, MDR, etc in an ergonomic form factor that sits balanced on the shoulder with most connections internal. In a perfect world you would only need a JetPack (or similar) for gimbal/drone applications, the "shell" for everything else and swapping would be a 60 second task in the field. Am I the only RedUser who wants this kind of functionality?

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Would love to see this as well. There is so much possibility with DSMC2 that hasn't been tapped. It has been WAY too long since Red has released any new modules, accessories, anything for DSMC2. Hope there are still some things in the works.
 
1) Electronic ND

2) Less fiddly and more responsive touch screen

3) Physical button controller like Teradek AC but built in the body. Sidekick 2.0, a bit larger.
This is essential feature for a cinema camera functionality, not a special feature.

4) Monitor arm with internal cabling and option for proper smart side monitor positioning (camera top is not), or just arm with external cable but allowing practical shooting

5) High speed burst into RAM cache option - no to minimal compression

6) Why is black shading still a thing unlike everyone else

7) Plastic vent cover off the high end camera body

8) Cooling reorganized with different positioning, one larger vent instead of two smaller for lower speed and frequency, if needed increase in camera depth. No one cares for one more inch if cooling variables disappear and cooling becomes a thoughtless factor.
 
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