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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC2. Unified.

Homer Dulu said:
A lot of people have previously been asking for RED to make the MONSTRO cheaper, in order to be competitive with the Alexa Mini (even though it would compete more with the SXT/LF). Now they've gone ahead and done it, I think it's something RED should be applauded for. Because now it's becoming harder to find reasons to take the Mini over the MONSTRO. Or even the Alexa LF as MONSTRO is now half its price!

I agree, it's no fun for some of us, but Jarred has said he'll take care of you guys who feel like they've drawn the short straw. But to keep it in perspective, brand new Alexa Mini and SXT owners must've felt even worse when the LF was announced... and Arri don't offer upgrades. Neither do Sony or Panasonic or Canon.

Even though I'm in a sweet spot with my Epic-W, I personally can't afford any of these upgrades. Keep the faith people, as Matt Quinn said earlier, I'm sure you will be rewarded in the end.
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I'm not sure it Monstro competes with mini.... Or Arri in general. Apples and oranges.
 
First of all, apologies if this was already answered. I tried to find it but all of this is a bit overwhelming...

We have 2 Epic-W's with Helium sensors. We just upgraded them in September before the cutoff. I don't get what we would get for upgrading for $5,000. I thought our cameras were DSMC2?

This overhaul of their product names is SO overdue when even I can't figure it out as an owner since Red One days. Too many body styles mixed with sensor styles, etc, etc. Options are good, but I think RED is very smart to move towards an easier 1-body, choice of sensors model. That is way easier to get your head around. This reset happened at Apple when Jobs came back, too. Options are good but sometimes can get out of hand. Jobs brought everything to 4 quadrants and only a few options within each. Sounds similar to what RED is doing now...thankfully.

Anyways, let me know what I'd be getting for $10,000 if I were to upgrade both my Epic-W Heliums...because other than a bit more fps at 8k, I don't think I see a difference, but I could be wrong.

Thanks!
 
Jarred Land said:
Any Monochrome... I made that sensor out of pure passion against all logic and those of you that bought them are just as insane as I am. Email me your (fair) offer and Ill do my best. Jarred@red.com
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Thanks for that and will do. Noob Gemini question: what are we using for Mic Pre-amps these days? Better in camera audio than Dragon?
 
Kevin Wild said:
First of all, apologies if this was already answered. I tried to find it but all of this is a bit overwhelming...

We have 2 Epic-W's with Helium sensors. We just upgraded them in September before the cutoff. I don't get what we would get for upgrading for $5,000. I thought our cameras were DSMC2?

This overhaul of their product names is SO overdue when even I can't figure it out as an owner since Red One days. Too many body styles mixed with sensor styles, etc, etc. Options are good, but I think RED is very smart to move towards an easier 1-body, choice of sensors model. That is way easier to get your head around. This reset happened at Apple when Jobs came back, too. Options are good but sometimes can get out of hand. Jobs brought everything to 4 quadrants and only a few options within each. Sounds similar to what RED is doing now...thankfully.

Anyways, let me know what I'd be getting for $10,000 if I were to upgrade both my Epic-W Heliums...because other than a bit more fps at 8k, I don't think I see a difference, but I could be wrong.

Thanks!
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You're getting a unified brain and the specs of a Weapon for $5,000.
 
emil_h said:
You're getting a unified brain and the specs of a Weapon for $5,000.
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Thanks, but that doesn't really clear it up for me. What does a "unified brain" give me that I don't have? And I just did a search for "Weapon" on their new DSMC2 page and it is not mentioned once. And besides, what was the "W" in Epic-W stand for? Weapon, right? I'm still confused to what I'd be getting that is different than what I just upgraded to. We are shooting 8k already. I thought our body is DSMC2 already. Still a little confused on this...
 
Steve DiMaggio said:
I am so confused, I bought a gemini a month ago, whats the new gemini?

steve
Click to expand...

Hey Steve - the "new" Gemini is just the Gemini sensor in the unified DSMC2 body with "Weapon" boards - basically opening up the possibilities for future firmware unlocks to the sensor, and having your camera body ready for any sensor swaps possible.

For you, since you bought the camera a month ago and it has the Epic-W boards, you get a $0 upgrade to the new boards! At least, that's my understanding!
 
Excellent news Jarred!!!
Once again you set off to make us all happy :)
Though I wouldn't want to be anyone in Red's accounting dept...
These guys must be freaking out!
 
Kevin Wild said:
Thanks, but that doesn't really clear it up for me. What does a "unified brain" give me that I don't have? And I just did a search for "Weapon" on their new DSMC2 page and it is not mentioned once. And besides, what was the "W" in Epic-W stand for? Weapon, right? I'm still confused to what I'd be getting that is different than what I just upgraded to. We are shooting 8k already. I thought our body is DSMC2 already. Still a little confused on this...
Click to expand...

So, the reason there was the Epic-W and Weapon-Helium was just that - Scarlet-W and Epic-W were both camera bodies with internal boards that, in a way, "nerfed" the capabilities of the sensors - data read/write, etc. Weapon was the "top tier" body with their best internal boards.

If you upgrade the boards, then you're in a position to take full advantage of your sensor + mags (for read/write), and you're in a position to do the sensor-swap program.
 
Kevin Wild said:
Thanks, but that doesn't really clear it up for me. What does a "unified brain" give me that I don't have? And I just did a search for "Weapon" on their new DSMC2 page and it is not mentioned once. And besides, what was the "W" in Epic-W stand for? Weapon, right? I'm still confused to what I'd be getting that is different than what I just upgraded to. We are shooting 8k already. I thought our body is DSMC2 already. Still a little confused on this...
Click to expand...

For $5k you turn your $20k camera into one that cost almost $50k just yesterday and costs $25k starting today. Seems hard to complain in my mind if you've owned it for a while.
 
Thanks Jarred, brilliant move in my opinion. I saw that the Epic W was going to have upgrading specs to weapon, and frankly expected it to cost about 10k, so I was prepared to transgrade both of my Epic W's to Gemini for the benefits -- now you generously are offering this for only 5k, and then I can get the full benefit of the 8k nice sensor and 60 fps (yes not 96 and yes not dual sensitivity), but still 8k is 8k. The conundrum with the Gemini, is that the added specs to weapon body really don't buy you any additional performance, but do offer the benefit of being on a platform that in the future one could change the sensor to Helium or Monstro or whatever. What a difficult but nice choice! To my surprise, somewhat, decided to stay with Helium and essentially get a Helium weapon for half of what it cost a day ago. What a delightful surprise. I know not everyone is happy, but I am and grateful and on the list.

Best!
 
BrendanLeahy said:
So, the reason there was the Epic-W and Weapon-Helium was just that - Scarlet-W and Epic-W were both camera bodies with internal boards that, in a way, "nerfed" the capabilities of the sensors - data read/write, etc. Weapon was the "top tier" body with their best internal boards.

If you upgrade the boards, then you're in a position to take full advantage of your sensor + mags (for read/write), and you're in a position to do the sensor-swap program.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes some sense to me that it would put me in line for future upgrades. But we are already DSMC2, right? So I'm just wondering if I'm missing something else that if I did these upgrades, that I would get a benefit I'm not thinking of other than a few more fps at 8k. It seems like other that that, I would see no difference the day after I upgrade. (But at least I'd be in good for future upgrades)

Does that sound right or am I still missing something?

Thanks for explaining. I should know better but I have not been able to keep track of all the different models over the years...
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
For $5k you turn your $20k camera into one that cost almost $50k just yesterday and costs $25k starting today. Seems hard to complain in my mind if you've owned it for a while.
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Well, as I mentioned, we only upgraded to the Epic-W Helium in September, so we are no where close to our lease being done. But I'm really not asking about values...more about what real-world differences I would see the day I get $10,000 worth of upgrades. I am curious, but so far, I'm coming up a bit empty. That's not a complaint...matter of fact, it's the opposite. Their last upgrade got us to 8k, ProRez, DSMC2, etc. We are happy. I'm just trying to figure out why I'd upgrade again so soon after last time... Thx!
 
whats the clarification on gemini upgrade besides down time? "weapon specs" I dont see a difference maybe I am looking at the wrong link

steve
 
Kevin Wild said:
Well, as I mentioned, we only upgraded to the Epic-W Helium in September, so we are no where close to our lease being done. But I'm really not asking about values...more about what real-world differences I would see the day I get $10,000 worth of upgrades. I am curious, but so far, I'm coming up a bit empty. That's not a complaint...matter of fact, it's the opposite. Their last upgrade got us to 8k, ProRez, DSMC2, etc. We are happy. I'm just trying to figure out why I'd upgrade again so soon after last time... Thx!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think if the camera and sensor works for your purposes, stay there! If you think you'd benefit from a Gemini, or even having the (paid) option to switch between sensors that fit your projects better, do the board upgrade.

We're on DSMC2, but this now creates a unified body so that the naming scheme stops being such a mess, and finally gets to the hope Jarred was after: allowing everyone to have the best body + internals possible, and opening up the option to switch sensors as you see fit - think of switching film stocks in the old days (or with analog photography now ;)
 
DSMC2 Gemini order placed.. super excited! High ISO filming with R3D is like the holy grail for what I do. I have a Scarlet-W and a Raven and am opting to sell the Raven and keep the Scarlet-W as a second body. So, anybody interested in a Raven that has only done light duty as a backup body and occasional b cam? Under 50 hrs of run time and in pristine condition! PM me :)
 
LOL. Reading this is like listening to a bunch of whinging toddlers. Your camera didn't just brick itself or magically start shooting worse quality pictures. You still have a camera that works and that you can use for work. I think people are getting way too hung up on the $$, go shoot, create something with your camera that makes beautiful images, whatever flavour (sensor, body) that may be. Sure, this deal is good for some, better for others and heck, maybe not so great for a select few. But that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Me, I'm now torn between a 5k upgrade to 50fps Helium or 5K crossgrade to Gemini......ugh....it was all so easy until today. First world problems.
 
Kevin Wild said:
Ok, that makes some sense to me that it would put me in line for future upgrades. But we are already DSMC2, right? So I'm just wondering if I'm missing something else that if I did these upgrades, that I would get a benefit I'm not thinking of other than a few more fps at 8k. It seems like other that that, I would see no difference the day after I upgrade. (But at least I'd be in good for future upgrades)

Does that sound right or am I still missing something?

Thanks for explaining. I should know better but I have not been able to keep track of all the different models over the years...
Click to expand...

This is my biggest question is about staying in line for upgrades come DSMC3. I asked Brent earlier on this thread and basically they're not there just yet. I waited a few hrs and then put in a request to upgrade which I should be able to cancel should I not want to. I'd ideally stay put for now (most of my work is on speed at 23.976) and upgrade in 2020 or just hold onto what will then become a relic.
 
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