DSMC2 EVF

[emil_h]

I was on a shoot this weekend inside a large warehouse that was pitch black except for a walkway area that we lit with directional lights. When viewing it on my RED 7inch monitor the background looked solid dark, however, when viewing it through my DSMC2 EVF the entire background was dim but visible. I was confused by which display was actually showing me the accurate lighting conditions (histogram helped with that). Once I viewed the footage on a computer it was clear that my monitor was right, while the EVF wasn't. Has anyone experienced this before and if so, were you able to solve it and how? Did you just bright the brightness down a lot on the EVF or did you do something else? Thanks!

 

[Phil Holland]

The key thing is not to expose for any camera based on the visible picture on any display.

You have access to in RED Cameras:

- The Clipping and Crushing Stop Lights
- The Clipping and Crushing Meters
- Histogram
- Video Check
- Exposure Check
- Gioscope

And on external displays:
- Scopes
- Waveforms
- etc....

Beyond that, Light Meters, but that's likely not what you are looking for here. But it is nice to know if you are exposed say for key and you "know" where 18% gray is, you know if you have 6,7, or 8 stops below that for example, depending on your ISO Rating that is. Most discerning DPs work moderately safe with that logic in the 6 up and 6 down as that works with a fairly broad range of cameras once you know where "middle" is.

A monitor is a preview, not a meter. It will give you a general idea of what you are shooting, but it doesn't ever tell the whole story of what is being captured in camera without the use of various tools and exposure methods.

 

[emil_h]

The key thing is not to expose for any camera based on the visible picture on any display.

You have access to in RED Cameras:

- The Clipping and Crushing Stop Lights
- The Clipping and Crushing Meters
- Histogram
- Video Check
- Exposure Check
- Gioscope

And on external displays:
- Scopes
- Waveforms
- etc....

Beyond that, Light Meters, but that's likely not what you are looking for here. But it is nice to know if you are exposed say for key and you "know" where 18% gray is, you know if you have 6,7, or 8 stops below that for example, depending on your ISO Rating that is. Most discerning DPs work moderately safe with that logic in the 6 up and 6 down as that works with a fairly broad range of cameras once you know where "middle" is.

A monitor is a preview, not a meter. It will give you a general idea of what you are shooting, but it doesn't ever tell the whole story of what is being captured in camera without the use of various tools and exposure methods.

100%. I totally agree with everything you said and you're right that it's all about relying on the tools that you listed. What I found strange was how the picture on the 7" looked a lot more accurate in terms of lighting vs the EVF. When I reviewed the footage today the background was solid black as I thought it would be while the EVF made it out like if light was spilling into the background. I was hoping that since the EVF was made by RED that it would be calibrated to look like my 7" display shows...

 

[Phil Holland]

100%. I totally agree with everything you said and you're right that it's all about relying on the tools that you listed. What I found strange was how the picture on the 7" looked a lot more accurate in terms of lighting vs the EVF. When I reviewed the footage today the background was solid black as I thought it would be while the EVF made it out like if light was spilling into the background. I was hoping that since the EVF was made by RED that it would be calibrated to look like my 7" display shows...

In the case of what you describe you are talking about a difference in black levels, which of course varies based on the screen tech. The EVF is OLED based and a bit different than the LCD.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

When viewing it on my RED 7inch monitor the background looked solid dark, however, when viewing it through my DSMC2 EVF the entire background was dim but visible. I was confused by which display was actually showing me the accurate lighting conditions

Emil,

What brightens levels have you set in the camera menus for both the EVF and LCD? May be worth dropping a point on your EVF? As your DSMC2 EVF is OLED you should see reasonably good black level if you have it set up correctly. The EVF cannot represent shadow detail that the sensor can't see so the background must have been reading or exposing right on the toe. The fact that an EVF screen is watched in perfect darkness helps the human eye see detail deep into shadows as opposed to a monitor surrounded by ambient light. As usual Phil has nailed it when it comes to the nature of monitoring.

 

[James Sielaff]

I was on a shoot this weekend inside a large warehouse that was pitch black except for a walkway area that we lit with directional lights. When viewing it on my RED 7inch monitor the background looked solid dark, however, when viewing it through my DSMC2 EVF the entire background was dim but visible. I was confused by which display was actually showing me the accurate lighting conditions (histogram helped with that). Once I viewed the footage on a computer it was clear that my monitor was right, while the EVF wasn't. Has anyone experienced this before and if so, were you able to solve it and how? Did you just bright the brightness down a lot on the EVF or did you do something else? Thanks!

There was definitely an issue.

The DSMC2 output and the OLED EVF had a weird contrast. it felt squeezed. Red needed to ad a contrast and saturation option to their evf, but they only had brightness, so there was no way to get a truly satisfactory solution.

I read this thread back when i was considering the EVF, and seeing you get push back, thought maybe you just did something wrong, but after starting my own thread and talking for weeks with Red Support, you were absolutely correct.

Red support said they would not be updating the processing or the system to fix this issue. Which made sense for dsmc2, but Ranger had just been released and for there to be no updates to fix a known issue on a brand new body was a disappointment. made it feel like an end of life product only weeks after it’s release.