Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dsmc..

Status
Not open for further replies.
To my eye there's some around 43-47 seconds .. but nothing as pronounced as the D90.
 
... does this really surprise anyone?

Jim
 
This is my first post after reading volumes of threads in the last couple of days on the REDUSER list.

I am one of the first --if not the first-- photographer to shoot with a digital camera for a photo stock agency. We (stock shooters) have seen our industry do several back flips in the last ten years and continue to do so.

The invention of the digital camera has made it easier for us to create amazing images but at the same time more difficult to make a living at stock due to a new crop of photographers that arose from all the great little digi-cams suddenly on the market: the amateur competition selling good-enough stock images for a buck.

I continue shooting with the finest digital camera's made but feel that it is time to start adapting to the future of culling still images off of video. I am hopeful that Jim's new camera(s) will be the tools to this first step.
 
Jannard said:
... does this really surprise anyone?

Jim
Click to expand...
Your demeanor is unbecoming and completely unprofessional, to say the least. Redalots may lap it up, but seriously, show me the money, man. Then talk. Red One is $16k + about half that for one lens + ton of other things that are needed. Sort of in a different league than the D90 and MkII, don't you think?

Do you have the guts to post video from a Red One while hand held and panning like a drunk like that shot? Me thinks...you don't. And to the poster that said 'the freedom to pan' my a**, unless you want to make your audience sea sick from the movement.

It is easy to criticize something that is, you know, actually SHIPPING. It is there to be picked apart and tested. It is easier yet to say how great your vapor cam is in comparison. Put your money where your mouth is...or is the market going to change again before you ship? And then we'll be waiting for 2010 before that great Canon killer actually shows up. Where do you expect Canon will be by then? What about Sony and Panasonic? Do you think everyone is going to sit around and wait until you have an actual product? This isn't movie cams.

Damn, I always thought SJ had a good RDF, but Jim, you put Steve to shame in that dept. Which reminds me of something Jobs once said...real artists ship. Seems that is one difference between you two.
 
Sanook said:
Your demeanor is unbecoming and completely unprofessional, to say the least. Redalots may lap it up, but seriously, show me the money, man. Then talk. Red One is $16k + about half that for one lens + ton of other things that are needed. Sort of in a different league than the D90 and MkII, don't you think?

Do you have the guts to post video from a Red One while hand held and panning like a drunk like that shot? Me thinks...you don't. And to the poster that said 'the freedom to pan' my a**, unless you want to make your audience sea sick from the movement.

It is easy to criticize something that is, you know, actually SHIPPING. It is there to be picked apart and tested. It is easier yet to say how great your vapor cam is in comparison. Put your money where your mouth is...or is the market going to change again before you ship? And then we'll be waiting for 2010 before that great Canon killer actually shows up. Where do you expect Canon will be by then? What about Sony and Panasonic? Do you think everyone is going to sit around and wait until you have an actual product? This isn't movie cams.

Damn, I always thought SJ had a good RDF, but Jim, you put Steve to shame in that dept. Which reminds me of something Jobs once said...real artists ship. Seems that is one difference between you two.
Click to expand...

I think the previous poster was getting too personal, but I agree with “More walk, less talk”.
 
alanf said:
http://vimeo.com/1815853

I'll leave it to you experts to say if this is rolling-shutter jello, or weird out-of-focus bokeh effects or wide-angle rectilinear lens distortion effects. :clown2:
Click to expand...

I wonder what effect the shutter speed has on the skew. Some other video shows less skew so maybe it is the slow shutter in that shot that caused the bad skew.
 
Higher shutter speeds accentuate the problem, not hide it.
Jim is certainly a showman, but he delivered on the Red One, I expect him to deliver on the DSMC/Scarlet. However he does have time, the Nikon and Canon offering are probably two generations from shooting video that would be called "Professional". So there is time.
 
Sao_Bento said:
I think the previous poster was getting too personal, but I agree with “More walk, less talk”.
Click to expand...

All he can do for now is talk... Jim Jannard has many things but I don't think he has a Time Machine. Some things take time to get into production you know.
 
Evin Grant said:
Higher shutter speeds accentuate the problem, not hide it.
[snip]
Click to expand...
That's what I thought. I was just trying to reconcile the different amounts of skew I saw for the different videos that have been posted. I was trying to imagine a sensor read-out timing scheme that would reduce the skew given more shutter closed time but which would still skew for 360 degree shutter. I couldn't think of how that would work but thought maybe it was possible.
 
Silentwave said:
All he can do for now is talk... Jim Jannard has many things but I don't think he has a Time Machine. Some things take time to get into production you know.
Click to expand...

In fact, I do know. I have been involved in the concept -> shipping of a few consumer electronics products myself. I'd love it if the now myriad RED products turned out to be everything they've been non-commitally said to be. For me, the giant branching tree of the RED product line casts doubt upon the company. I know it's important to keep the buzz going, but it can only go on for so long before you have to ship something or fall into the Duke Nukem 3 vaporware category. Red One is a good start. I think stable software would be a good follow-up. Once you add a bunch of similar products to your line, you can no longer focus on making the best product. Like so many people around here mention about the big guys, you have to start worrying about how your new product might obsolete one of your other products and cut into profits. That really complicates things unnecessarily for a company that's just getting started. It says there is a high likelihood that they will fall flat on their face at some point. I know a lot of people will say “they can do it because they're rebels - you just don't get it because you're not a rebel like us”, etc. but I'd rather error on the side of common sense.
 
Sao_Bento said:
Once you add a bunch of similar products to your line, you can no longer focus on making the best product.
Click to expand...

Kinda depends on how you do it. At Oakley, we had pretty good success at broadening the line without losing the top spot in eyewear...

Jim
 
Sao_Bento said:
In fact, I do know. I have been involved in the concept -> shipping of a few consumer electronics products myself. I'd love it if the now myriad RED products turned out to be everything they've been non-commitally said to be. For me, the giant branching tree of the RED product line casts doubt upon the company. I know it's important to keep the buzz going, but it can only go on for so long before you have to ship something or fall into the Duke Nukem 3 vaporware category. Red One is a good start. I think stable software would be a good follow-up. Once you add a bunch of similar products to your line, you can no longer focus on making the best product. Like so many people around here mention about the big guys, you have to start worrying about how your new product might obsolete one of your other products and cut into profits. That really complicates things unnecessarily for a company that's just getting started. It says there is a high likelihood that they will fall flat on their face at some point. I know a lot of people will say “they can do it because they're rebels - you just don't get it because you're not a rebel like us”, etc. but I'd rather error on the side of common sense.
Click to expand...

++

There seems to be two problems here.

First, to have the big kahuna of a company publicly disparaging SHIPPING competitors by comparing them to his NON-SHIPPING product is ludicrous. It isn't professional - let your product speak for itself (oh, but we don't actually HAVE a product...oops). If it is a great product, people will know. To put down rivals is FUD, pure and simple. Red has a good product, there is simply no need to talk like that. I made a comment some time ago about the sensor size of the now 'changing' Scarlet - 2/3" Huh? I thought it must be a joke for Red to try to use such a small sensor (barely bigger than used in most P&S cameras) to compete against the full size and APS-C size sensors in the very Canon and Nikons that are being criticized. 2/3" doesn't even compete with the 4/3 sensor that Panny and Olympus are pushing. It is no surprise that the product is 'changing' - it better change because it is beyond obsolete even now, and it hasn't even seen the light of day.

Which brings up the second point: yes, shipping products is difficult. Look at the front page of Red's website now: two 'oops' and one shipping camera. Not good. Better to hold your tongue and surprise people than to publicly display your mistakes. And yes, they are mistakes. Red can try to spin it however they want. The competition from Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, et all is a bit more difficult than Panavision. It is a completely different market, where quick model changes are required. I don't see Red as able to play with the big dogs yet, and it seems from their 'changes' at this date bear that out. Make sure the Red One is good and finished, work out all the bugs on it first. Once done, then move on to something else. Better to be a little late to the game with something good than on time but with something useless.
 
Sanook said:
++

There seems to be two problems here.

First, to have the big kahuna of a company publicly disparaging SHIPPING competitors by comparing them to his NON-SHIPPING product is ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Good news Sanook... is that you get to run your business any way you want. So do we.

As for disparaging the two new DSLR models, I have clearly stated that both are great stills cameras. The jello is what it is... the truth is not disparaging.

We seemed to have earned the trust of our customers by delivering much more than they signed up for. Let them tell us we should keep quiet.

We talk about what we are doing to get feedback, something the "other guys" don't seem to want to do. We have learned a lot from the interaction and made many changes because of it.

So in conclusion, if you don't like the way we do it... GFY. And have a nice day.

BTW, is the Canon shipping? Oh...

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top