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DSLR Rig for Scarlet-X

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Ryan Flesher

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I have the DSLR rig by Cinevate that I use with my 5d Mark II. I have looked at the Scarlet measurments and it looks like it will fit well on the 45 mm long, 15mm solid carbon rails and the simplis base plate, and allow use of the the swingaway matte box and follow focus. Plus the front cage will allow for mount of the LCD PRO touch monitor (I hope).

Weight aside and knowing it's not "TOP PRO" level, anyone else feel this will be a good solution for some shoots?

If not what kind of rigs are you planing on using?

Thanks,

Ryan
 
One of the more exciting things about Epic, Scarlet, and the whole DSMC concept is that the cameras are so compact that you'll be able to use them with rigs like Cinevate's Simplis.

It certainly won't be a workhorse setup and if you are using heavier lenses and getting up to 10lbs + on your camera package you'll likely be looking for a more stable shoulder solution.

Also to note, many HDSLR rigs out there were designed with the camera front and center or camera in front of the user. Once rigged out the Scarlet will be heavier and without proper counter balance you wont be shooting that way very long. Many people will be rigging out to have Scarlet on their shoulder or near their shoulder to allow for longer shooting periods with less fatigue.
 
I have Cinevate gear.

I've used it with Epic.

I kind of hate it, but it works.

If money is a problem, you can certainly just keep using the Cinevate stuff.

Frankly, I'm thankful that I have the Cinevate ... but its way past time to replace it with something way more flexible.

I recommend dumping your proteus/pegasus baseplate and brackets for whatever you can get and just investing in 15mm studio Red stuff.

You'd want the dovetail quick release platform:

http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/quick-release-platform-dovetail

Two universal 15mm studio brackets

http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/dsmc-universal-mount-15mm

A mounting plate which will live on your camera:

http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/mounting-plate-epic-2

and a dovetail for each of your heads,mount points.

Mostly you'll be able to use the short dovetail plate

http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/dovetail-mounting-plate-short-2

but occasionally you'll want the long dovetail plate

http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/dovetail-mounting-plate-long-2

That's expensive by comparison ... so let me tell you why you want it.

With this arrangement you'll be able to move the entire rig, rails and all from one set of sticks to another (or maybe a high hat, or a dolly) or you can decouple the brain & lens from the rails and go.

You'll also be able to run rails that extend on both sides of the camera ... which will let you build the sorts of rigs you are used to.

You've moved up to a pro camera ... move up to pro support.

OK so that is the "right" way to support an Epic or Scarlet ... but you need to save money right ? Me too.

Try Wooden Camera

One of these:

http://woodencamera.com/easy-riser-epic

and two of these:

http://woodencamera.com/tiny-versal-15mm-studio

This is actually a bit craptacular ... but it does save a pile of cash.

I like the Wooden camera stuff, but I'm probably going to get the Red myself ... your investments in camera grip will outlast the camera, in fact it will outlast several cameras, with just a bit of care.

You can make dumb decisions based on budget, like I did, and then be faced with buying again, or you can just bite the bullet and get what you really need now, and build on that for the future.

Learn from my mistakes. Get the "TOP PRO" camera grip gear.
 
Thanks for the info.
For sure I'm gonna get the Red QR Dovetail platform with 19mm studio brackets and the Scarlet Plate.

Any idea on the dimensions of the dovetail plates, both long and short? I wanna see what tripod heads they will work with.
Also does the RED QR Dovetail platform accept any other (bottom) plates other than the Red Dovetails, like a Manfrotto or O'connor plate?
Ryan
 
I don't even have my camera yet, but I've been playing with the Red QR dovetail a bit on our tripod and it's pretty fantastic. The build quality is just magnificent and it is a really well-engineered piece of equipment.
 
I shoot a lot of shoulder mount stuff with an AF100, and found that most DSLR rigs put the camera too far forward, just as Phil said. A small company, Westside AV, in New Hampshire is making a new shoulder rig for the AF100 and Olof, the owner, will help me customize it for my Scarlet. I will be beta testing it in the upcoming weeks. In my opinion, his rig looks very promising... adjustable balance, built in EVF arm. His work is very good and prices are very fair. Here is a post with some pics of a Beta verison. I am negativespace on that forum.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?264066-My-thoughts-on-shoulder-rigs-your-thoughts/page6
 
Alexander - this is exactly the type of info I have been looking for as I agonize over the less visible costs of Scarlet ownership. This is a big help in making decisions. And good advice, too. Thanks. :thumbsup:
 
I assume most buying Scarlet X are buying the touch screen configuration. In which case I believe many need to consider how once mounted on Scarlet the touchscreen can be viewed & accessed when on a rig.

Phil has already commented how unlike DLSR systems, the Scarlet due to weight, should be mounted nearer to the shoulder, hence nearer to the operators face. Now that leaves hardly any room for comfortably viewing of the touchscreen, unless you incredibly short sighted, let alone trying to operate any touch functions. Also if you follow the traditional configuration rails underneath the camera extending in a straight line towards the shoulder then not only is the screen close to your face but it also sits very high, I believe too high.

So I'm thinking instead of "undersling-ing" the rails I will "oversling" the rails from the top of Scarlet & connecting to a shoulder mount. Thereby dropping the height of Scarlet so the camera sits roughly below shoulder height, and the touchscreen at roughly eye line level . I have seen some Epic rigs in this configuration seems OK, anyone else considered this issue for use with Scarlet, any pros or cons?

Alternately you could resolve the whole issue by just hooking up a HD viewfinder.
 
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BTW - what is the measurement from the bottom of the camera to the mid-point of the sensor?
 
Mike - oversling....
like this?
Agree that shoulder-mounting our REDs presents some unique challenges. I have exhausted _hours_ trying to mix-and-match bits for the most cost effective (!!) and user-friendly combo. Part of the problem is many of these _very_ nice kits are priced with, initially, our $40K+ Epic bruthas in mind. I mean, a Clutch set-up on an Epic? Only $4500? done! But in Scarlet-world (well, Stu's-Scarlet-World), a Clutch is too close to 1/2 the price of the Brain to be cost-effective. Likewise these turn-key setups like the Mantis (tho admittedly cheaper than a Clutch). I suspect I am not alone in that assessment. The hunt continues.

Stu Aull
Alaska
 

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Mike Garrick said:
So I'm thinking instead of "undersling-ing" the rails I will "oversling" the rails from the top of Scarlet & connecting to a shoulder mount.
Click to expand...

I think it's totally a great solution for many. You lose somewhere between 6 and 12 inches of lens height, but if you're a taller fellow I can see this actually being an advantage.

I'll be looking for a solution to put Scarlet up on the shoulder and hopefully near my eye level. I'm 5'6" and have no problem getting lower, but have real problems getting higher when shoulder operating. This is why something like the Clutch is appealing to me.

I've operated with and have seen many others use their 5" Touch LCD via noga arm. Some don't like the stability of that combo. It's fine for my use, but I think I'll have sort of plate made that darts off in an "L" fashion to mount the screen closer to the baseplate. Might do this on the rods. Red has components that will get me there if I rig out from the side of the Scarlet Cage/Rib Cage or the Top Plate.

I'm holding off on a lot of my rigging concerns until I actually receive the Scarlet though. Once I have the camera in hand and load it up with the stuff I want to use while operating I'll have a better idea. The baseplate is the real nose picker for me right now and I'm really curious to see what Zacuto produces.
 
Another great resource for customizing your rig, adding a single top rod for wireless FF, top handle, etc. is www.berkeysystems.com. Brian is absolutely great and did an amazing job of helping me rig out my FS100. I'm going to be looking at his clamps to help me put rods in the places that I want them.

His stuff has the finish, polish and quality of Element Technica. Seriously. Blows the guys who jumped on the DSLR bandwagon out of the water especially for the price.
 
1stly apologies for my last post I left out a few comma's so it was a little hard to understand. Teach me to write in a hurry at a cafe.

In order of thread entry.......

@ Terry, Yes I to would like an official distance from centre of sensor to bottom of Scarlet base. This vital measurement cannot be found anywhere including the Epic manual. After a session with a compass , a ruler & a printed official Red Epic plan with some critical dimensions, I have figured it is somewhere between 90mm to 97mm.. ish. Official distance would be great.

@ Stu. Yes exactly like that!!! & I totally agree how in terms of pricing what works for Epic becomes very unviable for Scarlet X. This seems to be amplified with rig sytems.

@ Phil . I will have to tell my wife to throw out the high heels & start wearing a shoulder rig when she goes out so she can look taller. ;) . It would be nice to see the "L piece" you're talking about when fitted. I'm not sure about "Israeli arms " and the like, they're fine for monitors but will they handle touchscreen manipulation & stay rock steady?

@ Derek Yes exactly!!!! I have been looking at those , I already have a couple of similar but they are all metal, just the rod blocks. They are spaced for connection to manfrotto quick release plates. So depending on lens to sensor distance you should be able to buy a couple of manfrotto QR's for about $60 each, mount one above the rails the other below the rails using the 15 mm blocks & for about $150 have a very flexible tripod mounting system similar to Arri dovetail solution & Plate without the $1,100 price tag . I believe this is an opportunity for DSMC concept to shine through. I'm all for living in Stu's world on this one!!!!

The other great thing with manfrotto QR's, if you a have Matte box & follow focus mounted , they are incredibly felixible for different lens systems just slide the camera up or down on the plate in seconds to allow for 21cm long, 70 to 200mm L glass or 4cm long Leica Summicron, without having to stuff around too much with MB & FF repositioning. Saves a huge amount of time.

This is one of the fundamental differences between using PL glass (standardised cine lensing ) to using still photography lense systems and it seems to me know one is acknowledging those differences in terms of design.

@ Justin I have heard a lot about Berkey. I 'm going to wander through their website tonight. Thanks.
 
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In budget hunt land, I repeat, budget hunt land, I have been looking at GINI rigs (also WONDLAN) over at Ebay as possible considerations.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/GINI-RIGS-HDSLR-RIGS

Need some modding - and there's some pretty full on looking Franken-rigs about, but I'm thinking you can get a lot of modular elements to work with and the reviews I have found say that the quality of the materials/build quality are actually very good. They also don't all seem to be positioned as far forward as other DSLR targeted budget rigs like the JAG35 ones for example.

But still hard to bite the bullet as I'm sure there may well be a plethora of issues that could make the whole exercise pointless by the end. But perhaps not. So I would love some advice from more savvy users like Phil Holland and others.

Note: I'd love to go "Pro" Buy once and all that... But I'm spending the bulk of the last of my "pro money" on getting the best lenses I can.

Greatly appreciate any constructive/knowledgeable input.

This also might prove a useful link for some who will pass this way. http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=1474#more-1474

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
Lliam Worthington said:
In budget hunt land, I repeat, budget hunt land, I have been looking at GINI rigs (also WONDLAN) over at Ebay as possible considerations.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/GINI-RIGS-HDSLR-RIGS

Need some modding - and there's some pretty full on looking Franken-rigs about, but I'm thinking you can get a lot of modular elements to work with and the reviews I have found say that the quality of the materials/build quality are actually very good. They also don't all seem to be positioned as far forward as other DSLR targeted budget rigs like the JAG35 ones for example.

But still hard to bite the bullet as I'm sure there may well be a plethora of issues that could make the whole exercise pointless by the end. But perhaps not. So I would love some advice from more savvy users like Phil Holland and others.

Note: I'd love to go "Pro" Buy once and all that... But I'm spending the bulk of the last of my "pro money" on getting the best lenses I can.

Greatly appreciate any constructive/knowledgeable input.

This also might prove a useful link for some who will pass this way. http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=1474#more-1474

Best Wishes

Lliam
Click to expand...

I have a WONDLAND franken-rig and TRUSMT follow focus for my AF100 - which I am trying to mod for the Scarlet while I wait for my Westside AV shoulder rig. There certainly are super budget options but it seems that each component has its shortcomings. Check out this site for deals on Chinese built rigs i.e. WONDLAND and TRUSMT stuff - also some heavier looking Tilla stuff there - http://www.personal-view.com/

The wondland's hand grips slip in the ball joint contact under heavy weight, and the QR plate is a small DSLR plate - but the general construction is sturdy and it offers a counterweight plate to mount a Vmount plate to, which I use to power a Ki pro mini and a smallhd evf. The TRUSMT ff is great for the price, but slips under it's own weight but a few locking washers have secured mine enough to use. I have a cinevate proteus, QR which uses manfrotto plates that can lift straight up, instead of having to slide forward or back to release. I bought a shoulder pad and riser from a company called cat claw on ebay, and a wooden s/s handle from Westside AV.

But moving to a Scarlet, I need a better QR plate. I don't like the RED QR plate at all, but may have to suck it up and buy Wooden Cameras top and bottom plates, as well as 15mm LW bracket. I guess you can cut some corners, but some you can't.
 
Hi Steven, Thanks for that. I remember that thread over at Personal view, I was actually intending on getting a TRUSMT based on the reviews I read over there a while back - yours might be one of them! :) The slipping issue is GREAT to be aware of though. I haven't been on that site for a while though, so thanks I will go and check it out again.

Still beating my head inside and out over this. Scarlet/epic is just such a modularly powerful and great aesthetic camera design
that I don't want to fail to utilise that.

Sorry for possibly a stupid question. But what did you mean by the wooden camera bottom plate?

Best Wishes
Lliam
 
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