DSLR-killer...

[Steven Caesare]

You really don't know RED or Jim, do you?...... THEY design and manufacture the cameras......... Themselves. Without Chinese help.

That was a really ignorant post.

I, for one, am freakin' excited for this camera!

It was a rather myopic post... but as a point of clarification: aren't the cameras manufactured in Singapore?

 

[mezmo]

I'll be the first to admit that RED post production is still a work in progress. But I think you make it sound like RED ignores the issues completely. Well then what about RED ALERT! and REDCINE and so much collaboration between RED and Apple with Final Cut Pro? REDCODE reference quicktime movies can be edited in Final Cut or you can use a free log and transfer tool to import the footage as Apple ProRes HD files, Apple ProRes is the premiere HD codec for Final Cut. And if you really want choices and supported codecs use Scratch. Also RED is working with Adobe and Avid. I think there are plenty of post workflows that any established post house could adapt. As far as your comments on HDSDI, RED One cameras have HDSDI out.

http://www.red.com/cameras/workflow
http://www.red.com/red_mythbusters

Anyway, I do think this DSMC announcement feels premature, but at the same time I don't think RED is ignoring the current problems on the table at all.

Hi Clairinski,
The problem with the post houses I've mentioned seems to be quality.
The quality of HDSDI from RED ONE and the quality of DPX's generated
from RED's processing Apps.
Scratch is a very expensive interface compared to HDSDI, single or dual
stream. Many PH's are just not willing to invest in Scratch so they can
deal with R3d in an orderly fashion and quality issues still seem to emerge here, even with Scratch.
RED really need to interface with high quality HDSDI for video production
and high quality DPX for theatricial production and is it wise to allow others
to provide such a critical tool in order to make a complete RED SYSTEM work.
This is more important than a new camera.
Many potential RED projects (feature films) are falling over NOW because
of this problem. The most recent here in the last week.
Producers are being advised not to proceeed with RED for the above reasons. The honeymoon is over.
How RED deal with this is up to them, I know they are working their butts off, but time needs to be set aside to address an issue that will not go away any time soon.
Cheers Mezmo

 

[fde101]

Where is Canon's "post solution"?

I haven't seen one yet. They seem to rely on others to provide one, too...

Where is Panasonic's "post solution"?


Seems to me that Sony is the only one providing both, and not a particularly high-end one at that...


If you mainly edit, and do not shoot, do you really want to limit yourself to a single camera system because that is whose software you've learned to work with?


RED is providing what means they can to connect existing editing solutions to their cameras, rather than reinventing the wheel where no relevant problem exists.

That is a wise goal.

 

[Karl H]

.... And it will be metal.

Jim

Oh no, I can see it now, a consumer type DSLR that needs to be mounted to an O Conner :innocent:

 

[RicanJoe]

Oh no, I can see it now, a consumer type DSLR that needs to be mounted to an O Conner :innocent:

consumer?... what? Oooo ...yes, yes, this DSLR killer will indeed be the consumer, of every other still camera in the market.

 

[Alan Fletcher]

Leica Surrenders to RED : Changes to a BLACK DOT

Leica Surrenders to RED : Changes to a BLACK DOT

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091503leica_m82.asp

The black version of the M8.2 can be identified by the black Leica logo dot and hotshoe.

On the other hand, they have something else up their sleeve :

> " Ein System, das den Erfordernissen der professionellen
> Digitalfotografie im 21. Jahrhundert gerecht wird. Handlich wie eine
> DSLR. Hochauflösend wie eine Studiokamera. Mit einem Prozessor, wie
> es noch keinen gab. Mit Objektiven, wie es noch keine gibt."
>
> Code name:AFRika
>
> Rough translation:
>
> A system that fulfills the demands of professional digital photography in the > 21st century. Easy to handle like a DSLR. Delivering high resolution like a
> studio camera. Equipped with a processor unlike any other before. With
> lenses, the likes of which do not exist today.

 

[Sarah C.]

Oh no, I can see it now, a consumer type DSLR that needs to be mounted to an O Conner :innocent:

Yah yah.. I'm eager to slap on a matte box and follow-focus rig too! :construction:

~S

 

[SeanAzul]

I'm looking forward to what appears.

Having transitioned from a career in the visual effects industry to a still photographer, some of the things on my mind have been:

• Do we really need ISO on our cameras or is it just a carry over from the good ole days?
• Can't someone make a camera that exposes everything in my image like I want? (or even better, how I tell it)
• Why can't I just shoot high res digital video all day and just pull the frames I want instead of hitting a button to make the mirror fly up?
• Did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone?
• How much would a RED DSLR cost?

 

[Roberto B]

• Did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone?

first time poster.. simply perfect.. well.. be welcome.. me likes your humor..

 

[Steve Sanacore]

I imagine Jim wont be competing with Nikon, Canon etc... I imagine it will be with Hasselblad.

The medium format companies are not in competition with anyone but themselves. They are a dying breed. I know because I have been wanting and testing Hasse or Phase system for years now to replace my older medium format film cameras - but they are just not worth it to me. They are very slow and expensive with very few lens options In most cases with imagery no better than a Canon or Nikon DSLR with good optics such as Leica or now Zeiss. Their best feature is the PR value when a photographer pulls it out of his bag.

It's sad but I think their market will continue to shrink until they are gone forever.

No, I think Jim's competition is Canon, Nikon, Leica and Sony. And I predict he will probably do very well as there is very little loyalty in the prosumer market.

 

[deepfreezevideo]

Did Someone Say "Space Race"?

Did Someone Say "Space Race"?

The 1960's space race is responsible for ALL of the technology we are leveraging today. Aside from other "mundane" achievements like the invention of the wheel, the industrial revolution, the harnessing of nuclear power and rural electrification, the space race is probably the single biggest technological leap in the entire history of mankind.

I'd say it's an appropriate way to describe RED's development curve

 

[Brent J. Craig]

Oh no, I can see it now, a consumer type DSLR that needs to be mounted to an O Conner :innocent:

Most professional DSLR's have metal bodies. They don't have to use cast iron, you know. Titanium and magnesium are quite lightweight.

 

[David Rasberry]

[*]Do we really need ISO on our cameras or is it just a carry over from the good ole days?
[/LIST]

Even a digital sensor is going to have a sweet spot that produces the broadest dynamic range and lowest noise without highlight burn. That is what the ISO speed should provide a reference point for even if you have multiple stops of latitude over and under that point.

 

[Daniel Browning]

Do we really need ISO on our cameras or is it just a carry over from the good ole days?

I hope that technology will allow it to disappear some day, but in today's products it's vital.

Many CMOS DSLR cameras have techniques to reduce read noise significantly when using high ISO analog amplification.

That's why you *increase* your ISO to 1600 get *less* noise in the shadows. (Also known as "ISO to the right".) Of course, that's only beneficial if your important highlights don't clip and you don't decrease your absolute exposure to compensate. Decreasing exposure would increase the amount of photon shot noise, negating the positive effect of decreasing read noise.

There's a patent (6734905) for using dual ADC (one set to high gain and another at base ISO) to capture the low read noise and combine them together to get the best of both worlds. I don't think anyone is using the idea yet (maybe it's not as easy as it seems).

Analog amplification will only go away when it stops providing an improvement to read noise (as is the case with RED ONE).

Can't someone make a camera that exposes everything in my image [how I tell it]?

I get frustrated by that too. The aperture activation variance in the EF 24mm f/1.4 is up to a third of a stop! I guess you can't expect perfection from anything but a manual ring.

 

[mezmo]

Where is Canon's "post solution"?

I haven't seen one yet. They seem to rely on others to provide one, too...

Where is Panasonic's "post solution"?


Seems to me that Sony is the only one providing both, and not a particularly high-end one at that...


If you mainly edit, and do not shoot, do you really want to limit yourself to a single camera system because that is whose software you've learned to work with?



RED is providing what means they can to connect existing editing solutions to their cameras, rather than reinventing the wheel where no relevant problem exists.

That is a wise goal.

Hi 101,
It's not a post solution that's needed urgently, it some form
of high quality interface with other post solutions out there in the real world. Be it a R3d to HDSDI black box, fast high quality debayer/ EDL conform software, whatever.
It's up to them.
RED has to lift it's game in this area or it risks being seen as prosumer tool forever.
Whats the point of new cameras when RED is being rejected now for lack of a proper high quality interface.
I would suggest, interface or die, would not be too far from the truth.
It's futile to think the industry will adapt to R3d, it's seen as an odd little codec from a company that may not be there next week.
It makes no sense to develop any new camera untill the full picture quality
available from RED ONE can be realized now. To do so would be a waste of time.
Mezmo

 

[Alan Fletcher]

Here's some new news, then, Zakaree ....

Here's some new news, then, Zakaree ....

old news alanf

:mail1:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091601casio_fh20.asp

Casio announces Exilim EX-FH20 high speed camera

Casio has launched the Exilim EX-FH20 high speed digital compact camera.

Building on the interest in its EX-F1 model, the FH20 offers a burst rate of up to 40fps and movies at 1000fps. The camera is built around a 9.1MP, 1/2.3” CMOS sensor and 20x zoom lens (26-520mm equiv) Priced at £399, the EX-FH20 is considerably less expensive than the EX-F1 and will be available from October.

The EX-FH20's burst mode allows up to 40 7.1MP images to be recorded in burst of anywhere between 1 and 40fps. The camera also offers a pre-record mode that buffers images before the shutter release is pressed. Sensor-shift image stabilization is also included, along with a flash that can operate for up to 5 frames in continuous mode.
----------------------------------------------------
A bit slower (down from 60 fps), but cheaper. EX-F1 was $999 -- it's hard to compare £ to $ because European prices are usually inflated.

Edit : Currys lists the EX-F1 at an un-discounted £649.99 -- so the new one is about 40% less.

 

[BobSimon]

I have seen some footage made with RED. awesome!
Better than 70mm film.
I am thinking of ordering one RED ONE camera and lenses.
Can someone tell me how much money would be needed for a minimal setup?

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Where is Canon's "post solution"?

I haven't seen one yet. They seem to rely on others to provide one, too...

Where is Panasonic's "post solution"?


Seems to me that Sony is the only one providing both, and not a particularly high-end one at that...


If you mainly edit, and do not shoot, do you really want to limit yourself to a single camera system because that is whose software you've learned to work with?


RED is providing what means they can to connect existing editing solutions to their cameras, rather than reinventing the wheel where no relevant problem exists.

That is a wise goal.

Have you been living in a hole? P2 has a proven, reliable and proven workflow for every editor out there.

 

[number6]

Bob, just give them access to your checking account. Then start shoveling money in as fast as you can. They will stop taking it out when you are well outfitted or run out of money. They won't cheat you... they might bust you but they won't cheat you.

 

[Matthew Lochman]

Have you been living in a hole? P2 has a proven, reliable and proven workflow for every editor out there.

I really don't want to fan the flame here- This is not the place to discuss this stuff... but... I will say that one great thing about RED is that they are building a system that does not require proprietary media- to me that is more important than a "post solution" but than again, I'm not an editor... I hope that the editors out there can find away to contribute to the recent shift (RED) toward an honest, fair, non-proprietary, upgradeable, etc. electronic capture market (much the way us shooters have been open to all the new editing standards)...
I'm trying to say this as nicely as I can- I hope I'm not offending anyone- If I am it wasn't intentional and you are probably over-sensitive.