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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSLR-killer...

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ThydNostrum said:
Jim will burn through his fortune even before RED ONE will become a finished product. All the other announcements and dreams and pronouncements will be forgotten.
Those who waited for these fantastic products will go and buy D90 or whatever the Canon and Sony and Nikon sells. These companies do not make an announcement until they have finished product stacked up in warehouses ready for sale.
Beware of counting (or announcing ) the chickens before they are hatched.
Click to expand...

I never post, but a comment like this just can't be left alone. Well done, you've forced me out of my hole.
After everything that Red has done, going from vaporware to thousands of products on the market, the only thing you can say is that a self made Billionaire (the ignorance of your post forces me to explain, that's someone worth over a thousand millions- there are only 793 in the World) isn't smart enough with his money to turn a home run into a winning game?
You're ridiculous, and a comment like that makes me sick. Go soak your head in a toilet.
 
sojiah said:
I never post, but a comment like this just can't be left alone. Well done, you've forced me out of my hole.
After everything that Red has done, going from vaporware to thousands of products on the market, the only thing you can say is that a self made Billionaire (the ignorance of your post forces me to explain, that's someone worth over a thousand millions- there are only 793 in the World) isn't smart enough with his money to turn a home run into a winning game?
You're ridiculous, and a comment like that makes me sick. Go soak your head in a toilet.
Click to expand...

Well... thanks for the help. :-)

When you force companies to get out of their comfort zone, there are many that are understandably... not happy. Fear not. We'll do what we do and the rest will happen naturally.

Jim
 
ThydNostrum said:
I will feel a lot better if Jim concentrate on RED ONE and make it a functional product with all necessary accessaries, work flow software, owners manual etc. By keep announcing new products every week, his attention will be divided and nothing will ever get done.
Introducing a new DSLR is futile. Canon and Sony and Nikon have that market cornered. Nobody is going to dislodge them.
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OK... we have stopped DSMC development based on your comment. :-)

Actually, we heard that we should never develop the RED ONE because we had no chance in this industry. Go figure.

Jim
 
Just a reminder -- this one is probably closer to what you're planning (on a smaller scale):

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp

CES 2008: Casio today announced its EXILIM EX-F1 - a six megapixel camera with 12x zoom and some very impressive burst shooting capabilities. Capturing up to 60 frames per second at full resolution and a staggering 1200 fps if you drop the image size to 336 x 96, this innovative camera will also shoot 1920 x 1080 Full HD movies at 60fps. Helping to ensure the moment isn't missed is a buffer system which continually updates then saves the contents to card when the shutter is released. ... The EX-F1 will be available from March 2008 priced at $999.99.

I think your biggest problem will be Continuous Auto Focus (even Canon got that one wrong!)
 
Has anyone ever seen ThydNostrum and Stewart Chong in the same room together?
 
So Jim's first post in this thread said the DSMC will not replace the Scarlet. After I saw the "Smart Handle" for the Scarlet I kind of thought the Scarlet was already aimed at a DSLR market, not perfectly but it seemed to be as close as I thought RED would get. Then came the announcement of the awesome DSMC!!!! Go DSMC!!!!

I'm wondering how the two cameras will differ and why I might want a Scarlet over the DSMC.

Here's what I can safely speculate about the DSMC: if the DSMC is to compete against DSLRs then it will have to be in that price range and have an image sensor that competes in size and res. Also it would have interchangeable lenses. The MC part suggests it will shoot at high frame rates.

The Scarlet's current specs are amazing and I really want one, especially because of the price. But the DSMC looks even more promising, in part because of the interchangeable lens option that Scarlet doesn't have and I know that got a few people disgruntled about the Scarlet (not me though, I don't mind the fixed lens too much). But even more importantly is that the image sensor on the DSMC would be far bigger than the 2/3" on the Scarlet (prettier shallow dof with the DSMC). Resolution matters of course, but for video it doesn't concern me as much. I would probably import 3K Scarlet footage into Final Cut as 1080p ProRes files for most projects. So even if the DSMC could only do 2k redcode raw footage but it entirely utilized and scaled from its larger sized image sensor I might be happier with those results than 3k footage from a smaller 2/3" chip.

So the question is: In what situation would I want a Scarlet more than a DSMC and what specifications would differ on the cameras to make them more appropriate for different tasks?

I understand if this question can not be answered due to secret plans for the DSMC. I'm more than happy to wait for an event like NAB to have my question answered. But it is a question that is on my mind.
 
Zakaree said:
old news alanf
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That's why I said "this is a REMINDER" :whistling: .... and I didn't see it referenced in this topic.

While I'm at it, there's a lot that the G1 has which was in the REALLY old KM A2 ... VGA 60hz EVF (tilting, too!) Auto-detect that your eye is at the evf.

While I'm at it, can you please add the interval timer aspects of the A2, only make it work from any interval greater than the shutter speed. (The A2 has a minimum of 30 secs, and goes to sleep between shots).

I kind of hope the "RED [D]EVIL" will be a bit like this one by dpreview.com's chuxter :

http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/?page_id=27
http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/dsc01519lrasmall.jpg
 
Evin Grant said:
I disagree, still & motion photography are cousins not siblings. They require wholly different approaches to attain pro caliber results. Not to mention the completely different use of shutter speed/angle. Unless you are specifically looking to capture a series for use as multiple images a "spray and pray" approach is as creatively deadening as "Let it roll" was on DV. There is an urgency and a creativity that is imbued by the "Decisive Moment". If you don't believe me ask Mr. Cartier Bresson.
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I think Bresson's "decisive moment" has more meaning for street photography than (for example) the continuously unfolding movement of a dance.

I've been shooting dance performances for ten years, both stills (DSLR) and video (HDV). It's great to use a DSLR for this but you need both skill and a bit of luck. Needless to say, my dance video always has frames of beautiful moments that were not captured by a DSLR, and I wish they had been. Individual HDV frames aren't very pretty unless you print them fairly small.

I've always wanted a camera that could shoot video framerates with DSLR resolution, that I could personally afford. Red One offers two out of three :-).
 
jbeale said:
I think Bresson's "decisive moment" has more meaning for street photography than (for example) the continuously unfolding movement of a dance.

I've been shooting dance performances for ten years, both stills (DSLR) and video (HDV). It's great to use a DSLR for this but you need both skill and a bit of luck. Needless to say, my dance video always has frames of beautiful moments that were not captured by a DSLR, and I wish they had been. Individual HDV frames aren't very pretty unless you print them fairly small.

I've always wanted a camera that could shoot video framerates with DSLR resolution, that I could personally afford. Red One offers two out of three :-).
Click to expand...

Action photography has always been a place were high frame rates are useful. But that is only one part of the whole of Photography. here's an idea for you Jim, how about a pre-record like function on the DSMC that continuously records but when you press the shutter release it writes all the frames in memory before and after the moment of exposure but circles (labels) the frame you pressed the button on. Also that singular frame should happen at the instant the button is pressed, even if it's out of time (1/60th) off of the others. This would obviously only be useful for still but it might give both multiple choices and decisive moment options!
 
alanf said:
That's why I said "this is a REMINDER" :whistling: .... and I didn't see it referenced in this topic.

While I'm at it, there's a lot that the G1 has which was in the REALLY old KM A2 ... VGA 60hz EVF (tilting, too!) Auto-detect that your eye is at the evf.

While I'm at it, can you please add the interval timer aspects of the A2, only make it work from any interval greater than the shutter speed. (The A2 has a minimum of 30 secs, and goes to sleep between shots).

I kind of hope the "RED [D]EVIL" will be a bit like this one by dpreview.com's chuxter :

http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/?page_id=27
http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/dsc01519lrasmall.jpg
Click to expand...

EVIL is a fantastic camera. Jim must be copying it.
 
Jannard said:
..... Sensors are trade-offs. Sensitivity and low noise are helped with large pixels... which means lower resolution.....
Click to expand...

In my mind, this is one of the most important comments ever mentioned by Red. I never, and still don't, understand the race for resolution. There must be a point where we encounter the law of diminished returns and you can no longer see any increase in the usual viewing venue.

I recognized this years ago when digital point and shoot cameras quickly raced up to higher resolutions, and the sale people touted that as better. At some point, the image couldn't be printed any better with more resolution.

Even Ken Rockwell has started to get a bit miserable about the entire pixel-count marketing deal. He hints that 6 megapixels is the point at which, they all become even.

I suspect, that if people understood that they might get better sensitivity and less noise with lower resolution, that they would choose lower. Especially if they were critical and honest about where there work really would be seen.

When talking moving pictures, at what resolution point can we print a decent film print, or project a digital file (and what projector), or burn a great looking Blue-Ray?

In my mind, DOF, sensitivity, and low noise are more important than resolution (after we reach a certain point)

Just my thoughts.

Chris
 
Sounds like a good camera, looking forward.
 
Jannard said:
...Everyone wants it all (so do we), but it will take a couple more generations to get there. Good news is that our program is improving in each area with every new generation sensor. We are very proud of the RED ONE performance set compared to anyone currently in the industry. But customers need to judge again every year as things evolve. We have put our hat in the ring. We will not go "one and out" if I can help it.

Jim
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Three thoughts I had during reading this thread:

1) I expect that the RED "DSMC" will abide by the established RED philosophy of being modular (upgradeable Sensor)?

2) Is there any chance that SCARLET will offer Interchangeable Lenses? I realize what the announcements have been - but we also have seen recent posts such as "EPIC HAS CHANGED". :) With the emergence of recent Prosumer Cameras by competing companies with interchangeable lenses, I think it would be worth thinking about again.

3) One thing that RED will need to spend time on after the initial design of the DSMC will be Automatic Features / Onboard Software Options. Are options, such as Face recognition, Optical Image Stabilization, Scene Modes, Auto Focus Selection, Color Filter Modes, all expected in a first release, or would these be added (downloaded) as the DSMC gets firmware upgrades?

Just some thoughts... thanks for any info you can leak. :-)

Exciting Times...
 
I suspect, the DSMC is already in production in China and is being warehoused for 2009 sale.
All these talk about how it should be done what should be included etc. are worthless talk.
Because, I suspect, Jim had a meeting with the Chinese OEMs and the product for RED-branding was selected from their catalog
and downpayment was made and contract was signed, before the DSMC was announced.
Jim is keeping the features a secret to keep the fanboys interested in it. Just a marketing ploy.

I am amazed at how many people keep writing about this unknown product. when the camera hits the market,
it would be just another low priced camera with a lot of pixels and an awkward post workflow.
The pros will look at it, shake their heads and go on shooting their nikons and canons and sonys.

I am not a fan of any particular company or any particular product.
I just made a comment about the situation as I see it on this forum. That is all.

PS: In full disclosure: I own all the above mentioned professional DSLRs. And I think D90 is fantastic.
 
Here's a plea for 3D:

1) Two DSMC's should be syncable - preferably master/slave, so that triggering one triggers the other (all shooting modes), within 0.1 millisecond.

2) The camera should be no wider than the required lens mount, to allow for
narrowest interoccular spacing.

Maybe just wishful thinking and perhaps it's too late, but just think, everyone who uses this for 3D will buy TWO!
 
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