Dropped Frames - How to Spot them

[ericyoung]

...Ironic thing is that the dropped frames DON'T show up in RC-X anymore. I had to bring the footage into FCP-Log and Transfer to notice the grey frames.

TOO late to do anything about it. There needs to be a better way to catch the dropped frames before it get's to the DIT.

You don't have grey frames in RC-X but they are there when you transcode in FCP L&T???

 

[Dustin Cross]

the dropped frames DON'T show up in RC-X anymore. I had to bring the footage into FCP-Log and Transfer to notice the grey frames.

Is the bad frame in FCP not bad in RCX? Or is it just easier to notice in FCP? I miss the bright green frames, because they were so much easier to notice.

It would be nice if Red flagged the dropped frames in metadata so that software knows exactly how many dropped frames and where they are.

Hopefully, Epic and the new SSDs will make dropped frames a thing of the past.


Dusty

 

[Quentin Brown]

Is the bad frame in FCP not bad in RCX? Or is it just easier to notice in FCP? I miss the bright green frames, because they were so much easier to notice.

It would be nice if Red flagged the dropped frames in metadata so that software knows exactly how many dropped frames and where they are.

Hopefully, Epic and the new SSDs will make dropped frames a thing of the past.


Dusty

I'm surprised that RED hasn't implemented the dropped frames metadata flag before. Perhaps it would give a false sense of security? It's difficult to know from my experience whether all dropped frames that occur are actually reported accurately by the camera or not. It would certainly be helpful metadata though, even just to help you find and check the correct file when the Camera assistant hands you a drive and says one of the clips reported dropped frames but he can't remember which one (extreme weather made note making almost impossible for the 2nd AC in the example I'm thinking of, plus the DoP was eager to get rolling again all the time with the changing weather so not his fault).

 

[Mick van Rossum NSC]

I did some testing a couple of months ago to find software that could detect corrupted material, here is the link;
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44596

 

[RyanW]

I have found that RCX doesn't even show grey frames anymore but just jumps to next good frames. It is very hard to spot when scrubbing footage. So I now scrub all clips in Clipfinder where the grey frames show up very well....but sometimes they will ellude your eye...especially on the 12th hour of your day.

If i find any I go back to old redcine (cus it shows lost frames with red timecode when they occur) scrub to point I suspect DF and find the exact frames lost. It is important to make the 1st AC aware how important it is to check the monitor after every take for DF (practically every day).

I keep track of which drives it occurs on, reformat them, and if It occurs again on the same drive it's taken out of rotation and a new on is requested to replace it. Drives that work perfectly fine in prep still can develop problems during production. Over the course of 35 days of shooting we replaced 3 out of six drives....I also found hat the 640 drives were more problematic than the 320's

Your remote camera situation sounds difficult at best.

 

[Jamie Metzger]

I have found that RCX doesn't even show grey frames anymore but just jumps to next good frames. It is very hard to spot when scrubbing footage. So I now scrub all clips in Clipfinder where the grey frames show up very well....but sometimes they will ellude your eye...especially on the 12th hour of your day.

If i find any I go back to old redcine (cus it shows lost frames with red timecode when they occur) scrub to point I suspect DF and find the exact frames lost. It is important to make the 1st AC aware how important it is to check the monitor after every take for DF (practically every day).

I keep track of which drives it occurs on, reformat them, and if It occurs again on the same drive it's taken out of rotation and a new on is requested to replace it. Drives that work perfectly fine in prep still can develop problems during production. Over the course of 35 days of shooting we replaced 3 out of six drives....I also found hat the 640 drives were more problematic than the 320's

Your remote camera situation sounds difficult at best.

Exactly what I was experiencing...The sheer fact that we have to watch the footage frame for frame is an unrealistic expectation. The deadlines are so short these days that by the time I download the footage, the editor is itching to get the transcodes.

I find it hard to believe that anyone here wants to watch the footage frame for frame, when an easier solution could be built into RC-X. But really, this QC needs to happen on the camera, and it needs to be blatantly obvious. The little box at the bottom of the screen doesn't cut it, and hasn't been cutting it.

The last 2 months I haven't done a single RED job. I've worked with the same DP from the Job that caused this problem and he's trying his hardest to stay away from the RED. We've been doing F35 and Alexa...Arri Answers phone calls, emails, Facebook messages. I can call Panavision hollywood and speak to their senior tech's about any questions with the F35.

RED....well, here I am.

 

[Ryan Patch]

Hey all -

For everyone who is saying that the "only true solution" to guarding against (and knowing about) dropped frames is to QC every frame of media - yes, you are correct at this moment. But Jamie's point is that that's not how it should be. Yes, you're right that the operator needs to be the one watching for dropped frames - but it would be ideal if they didn't have to.

We're working with files that we can manipulate and flag and tag... why don't we simply have a metadata field for dropped frames? The camera knows - why can't it just pass on this information to out DITs? Why can't we run a check through RCX to identify clips with dropped frames, and be taken on a tour of every clip's dropped frames? I would pay a bundle for that, whether from RED or a third party.

Also, people who have time to QC every frame of media should drop by my place - I've got some laundry that needs doing, and the sets you work on clearly aren't demanding enough of you.

 

[Joe Christofori]

Hey guys so has anyone determined if the Rec settings can affect this,
Example
30 minute takes in rec. 42
Could that cause dropped frames?

We seem to be getting some today,
Never had this happen before
And often we don't push it this long