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Dragon Vs Arri Alexa XT PLUS RAW

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Adam Eden

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As Red Epic M and X owner for several years, and i have bought and paid (still waiting to be upgraded) for a dragon upgrade and rocket x, I am seriously considering buying an Alexa XT Plus and shooting Arri Raw as i mainly shoot TV commercials and 99% of the TV commercial work in Australia is Alexa and a majority of that is being shot on Arri Raw now.

Just throwing here is the $150k Alexa XT package really worth the investment? Do people on this forum really believe the dragon will make a difference and people will choose Red Dragon over Alexa?

I know there a few threads similar to this but no one has really weighed up the financial cost investments and rentability.

The main reason why i am seriously considering buying the Alexa is that the back yard warrior with a Scarlet or a second hand Epic couldn't possibly rival a good DOP with there own Alexa XT Plus.

A bit like the old days when i was shooting on a $150k digi beta when they first came out compared to DVCAM or DVCPRO

Please dont make this an ALEXA VS RED image quality war thread.
 
Aside all said and done, what it comes down to when NOT choosing a camera for the best resolution and image quality, which in my strong opinion is of course the RED EPIC DRAGON by a LONG shot... one must weight in the main factors of why choosing a camera system, I have, and so should you and any one buying.

I DO NOT rent out the gear, and in all jobs I am either the P{reducer, Director and or DP, were at times I am the DIT or Camera technician, so the Gear never really goes out alone, and I am always there to help and answer any given question, and make sure that the camera it is used at its best.

Now, when it comes to buying a piece of equipment such a camera system for the purpose of renting, then one must look at current market needs, and what rents most in it's hers given area, if the camera system is chosen to work with it, and not renting it out, then one must look at his/hers capacity as operator and buy the camera that best fits the need.

Unfortunately as it is now, Alexa does rent out more, and it is more in demand then the RED EPIC MX, but with DRAGON is different, I believe right now mostly because of the curiosity and see truly how much the EPIC has changed with the new sensor, however the camera system has remained the same, and those that did not wanted to begin with, will not do so even with Dragon, because of the same reason.

The trends and Must shoot Arri ONLY mentality of some is just mind blowing to me, I chose RED because I truly believe it is the absolute best camera for me and for what I do, and if Arri, or Sony or any one else, just saying Arri since this is an Arri vs. RED camera decision, was to come out with a camera system that I was to discover was better suited for me then the RED EPIC DRAGON, then I simply would say thanks Jim and Jarred and RED team for the fantastic adventure and great Imagery you guys allowed me to capture thru the camera you made, but I need to move on...

Simple as that.

I suggest you average out what you really want and what it is really important to you, do a good amount of search and make your decision, not just about what we say here, ours even so based on Facts, for the vast majority are only OPINIONS... So I would be extremely careful about investing that kind of money on some one else's opinions, even mine own.

Best of luck and happy shooting Adam... ;)
 
I guess main question is the timing of the Alexa 4k at this moment.

Digi is still a great cam, BTW. Runs circles around even some of the current "HD" cams.
 
Very very well said Ketch. I admire your sincerity.
 
150k is a seriously high investment. Like Gunelik said, with the impending announcement of an Arri 4k cam you're better of buying a used Alexa plus upgrading to XR plus still owning a Red Dragon. Why have only one when you can have them both? Heck foe that amount you can toss in a C500 and an F55 or whatever is released at NAB. As an Alexa plus owner I can assure you that the accessories you need will put you at almost 180k for Commercial work. That is unless you already own most of them. The plus unlike the Ev needs a 150mm ball head tripod that can hold about 60lbs. You'll need an oled viewfinder with 4:3 capabilities, high speed license, a 21 inch for Clint's, a remote lens control motor, etc etc. get a used one with XR for raw
 
Adam Eden said:
Just throwing here is the $150k Alexa XT package really worth the investment? Do people on this forum really believe the dragon will make a difference and people will choose Red Dragon over Alexa?
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I never see Alexa XT's used for commercials in LA. They just use the straight, original Alexa (closer to $60K plus accessories). Don't forget there are Alexas on the used market.
 
Thanks for your insites guys,

Apparently if you buy a XT Pro you can upgrade it the 4k when it comes out and don't need to replace the whole camera, but im not sure if you can upgrade a standard plus to XT then to 4k when it comes out

I think i worded my first post not quite as well as i should. I dont rent gear out on its own as only rent my gear to the production that i am shooting on. And people are now wanting to book me using an Alexa PLUS XT with all of my lenses etc and not my EPIC, hence the interest in buying one.

I definately wouldn't buy a standard Alexa and i love RAW and i couldnt go back to prores / DNX


Im not going to sell my Dragon (When i get it) and i normally dont rent gear out. I actually rarely shoot for anyone (I have my own production/post house for about 16 years now) else but as i have been progressing through my career more and more directors like my work and want me to shoot for them. I shoot alot of motor sport tv commercials and i fly my epic on my Steadicam so there is no need to convince me about how good Red is as i was converted years ago.
 
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Adam Eden said:
A bit like the old days when i was shooting on a $150k digi beta when they first came out compared to DVCAM or DVCPRO
.
Click to expand...

When digi beta came out there were no DVCAM or DVCPRO camcorders :D
 
Adam Eden said:
Thanks for your insites guys,

Apparently if you buy a XT Pro you can upgrade it the 4k when it comes out and don't need to replace the whole camera, but im not sure if you can upgrade a standard plus to XT then to 4k when it comes out

I think i worded my first post not quite as well as i should. I dont rent gear out on its own as only rent my gear to the production that i am shooting on. And people are now wanting to book me using an Alexa PLUS XT with all of my lenses etc and not my EPIC, hence the interest in buying one.

I definately wouldn't buy a standard Alexa and i love RAW and i couldnt go back to prores / DNX


Im not going to sell my Dragon (When i get it) and i normally dont rent gear out. I actually rarely shoot for anyone (I have my own production/post house for about 16 years now) else but as i have been progressing through my career more and more directors like my work and want me to shoot for them. I shoot alot of motor sport tv commercials and i fly my epic on my Steadicam so there is no need to convince me about how good Red is as i was converted years ago.
Click to expand...

If you can upgrade your xt to 4k, then that makes sense. By all means the go fo it.
Quick question why not go for an Alexa M XT? Seems for your uses it will be a better deal than a plus for you. A plus is just great for remote heads and Client monitoring, but an M can do all that and still sit on a steadycam or a movi, or hand held, or tripod way more versatile. many who have never used it complain about not wanting to be tethered, but tethering on an endless cord or a backpack is unbelievably awesome.
 
interesting that its upgradable to 4k, after Arri put out so much anti 4k propaganda regarding pixel peeping and viewing distances. How can they justify their anti 4k stance while at the same time validating 4k by releasing a camera that does it? seems inconsistent...

but regardless of their inconsistency on the 4k issue, i think it makes good business sense to buy into arri products. they make good lights, matte boxes, follow focuses, and heck even cameras... they are a well established brand that makes clients comfortable regardless of reasoning. assuming the 4k upgrade isn't insanely priced, i'd buy the XT now if you got the coin. or if the upgrade pricing is bad, I'd wait, kind of hinges on that for me at least. i am basically in the same shoes debating my next purchase...i dont got the coin for an XT, but was considering an Amira or glass. I'd go for carbon dragon but by the time i have cash in hand i think i will have missed the window to really milk it on rentals... so i am looking out for the next trend i think at this point unless i get paid off soon
 
I personally find the ROI on new Arri gear extremely hard to justify unless you have a very established clientel willing to pay full truck on rentals. If the XT cannot pay for it's self completely in rentals (probably 100-150 days your gigs or not) in 18 months then it's too risky for my taste. My original R1 paid for it's self in 6 months, and my MX, Epic and now Dragon upgrades have have/will even quicker. Owning gear is tough and sometimes it really does make more sense to rent.
 
shashbugu said:
If you can upgrade your xt to 4k, then that makes sense. By all means the go fo it.
Quick question why not go for an Alexa M XT? Seems for your uses it will be a better deal than a plus for you. A plus is just great for remote heads and Client monitoring, but an M can do all that and still sit on a steadycam or a movi, or hand held, or tripod way more versatile. many who have never used it complain about not wanting to be tethered, but tethering on an endless cord or a backpack is unbelievably awesome.
Click to expand...


Apparently only the XT plus can be upgraded to 4k and not any other model. I have yet to have this confirmed by Arri yet so i all this could be FUD. But my source is quite reputable.
 
I will try to confirm this 4k rumor as well
 
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