Dragon vs Alexa vs Mx. Now, please!

[Gunleik Groven]

Hm... I have accepted to be part of that test, and have refused to make that "a secret". I do not believe too much in secrecy, and if I think the tests are flawed, I am free to say so.
I think it all is rather interesting.

There is a lot of stupid aggression between Geoff and RED. And I do not care whos fault or who said what a few years ago.
Tests have their mission, if they are done and interpreted right.

If anyone think I want to rig them... Well, I expect to take some heat for even being there.
But that is not my reason for accepting.

There have been some obvious flaws in some tests.
And others have been good.

The RAW files will be released alongside analysis from this particular test.

And there will be released short movie sniplets of relevant tests, as it is hard to say anything meaningful about noise from stills really.

Geoff wanted it to be secret that I take part, for reasons I do not get.
I have a philosophy that things I cannot do under my own name. I will refrain from doing.
Controversial or not.

Dragon is good. As I expect the F65 to be excellent. And I expect to see the issues I know from the Alexa.

I hope we manage to run through enough tests to present "systems", THAT is my utmost worry.

If anyone somehow thinks I am anti-RED, or "working for RED"....

Well... I have decided I must just ignore those two sentiments.

I should have enough merit now to ignore those kind of assumptions or try to defend myself against them.

I expect to get a bit of heat for not having the new OLPF and the new color-science, and I fully expect the Dragon to be better with those.
If I somehow get those installed and they are ready to show off, I will gladly do that.

Still.
This is the camera out NOW and it is used NOW on small and large productions. And it is a bloody good camera.
The probability that it will get better, does not make it bad now.

Firmware is now in release.


What I hope (but that might be a naiive hope) is to contribute to some peace.

i find all the evil blood not corrupt, but really unpractical and destructive.

Now you know.
Go flame me!

I need to get my Dragon out working. Even more.
I do not think it helps that mission to hold it back from comparisons that will be done anyway.
I think it is better that the comparisons are done with me present, than not.

Witholding the camera from the test... I think that would be really stupid, too, as that would just be to put fuel on the fire. Yup.... I am totally aware of how Geoff presents things at times.

The discussions we have had in advance have been on tests to prioritize and methodology.
I have offered to work around the clock while we shoot.
I am afraid of the timeframe to do the tests, as there are really a lot of cameras to walk through.

I am offered all original files I feel the need to have.

So far everything has been as fair and squeare as can be.
And like RED did not put any limits on what to say or publish when I had the prototype, Geoff has not asked me for anything, but ideas on how to make the tests good.

We disagree on a few things, but nothing that will really affect the result one way or the other. More a matter of preference.

Openness on how the tests are performed and RAW files to the people, have been my conditions, in addition to getting any files I want, and being part of how the tests are set up.

Dragon is the only camera I curently have... If you guys think I have any interest in making it look bad...
That kinda falls on its own rationale.

But that is my 2c.

LOL

 

[Stephen Williams]

they never provide raw material thats why i dont care about cml tests.

If you ask Geoff nicely, I am sure he will give it to you, he has nothing to hide.

Edit As you own both camera you don't need the RAW files as you can replicate his tests with both an MX & Dragon camera!

 

[David Battistella]

Any one truly interested in one camera vs. the other should arrange for their own test one there own term to satisfy their needs, and then make an inform decision on which camera to buy or rent.

Bingo.

All three cameras are in the wild. Rent them or get to a rental house that has them and set up and do your own testing and come to your own conclusions.

If if you want to be a good member of the community you might even share your tests.

A ranty post post title with exclamation marks and childlike insistence, is, well...I don't need to go on.



battistella

 

[Ergin Ozturk]

Gunleik
i am so happy that you will participate that test. i trust your skills and red knowledge %100.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Hm... I have accepted to be part of that test, and have refused to make that "a secret". I do not believe too much in secrecy, and if I think the tests are flawed, I am free to say so.
I think it all is rather interesting.

There is a lot of stupid aggression between Geoff and RED. And I do not care whos fault or who said what a few years ago.
Tests have their mission, if they are done and interpreted right.

If anyone think I want to rig them... Well, I expect to take some heat for even being there.
But that is not my reason for accepting.

There have been some obvious flaws in some tests.
And others have been good.

The RAW files will be released alongside analysis from this particular test.

And there will be released short movie sniplets of relevant tests, as it is hard to say anything meaningful about noise from stills really.

Geoff wanted it to be secret that I take part, for reasons I do not get.
I have a philosophy that things I cannot do under my own name. I will refrain from doing.
Controversial or not.

Dragon is good. As I expect the F65 to be excellent. And I expect to see the issues I know from the Alexa.

I hope we manage to run through enough tests to present "systems", THAT is my utmost worry.

If anyone somehow thinks I am anti-RED, or "working for RED"....

Well... I have decided I must just ignore those two sentiments.

I should have enough merit now to ignore those kind of assumptions or try to defend myself against them.

I expect to get a bit of heat for not having the new OLPF and the new color-science, and I fully expect the Dragon to be better with those.
If I somehow get those installed and they are ready to show off, I will gladly do that.

Still.
This is the camera out NOW and it is used NOW on small and large productions. And it is a bloody good camera.
The probability that it will get better, does not make it bad now.

Firmware is now in release.


What I hope (but that might be a naiive hope) is to contribute to some peace.

i find all the evil blood not corrupt, but really unpractical and destructive.

Now you know.
Go flame me!

I need to get my Dragon out working. Even more.
I do not think it helps that mission to hold it back from comparisons that will be done anyway.
I think it is better that the comparisons are done with me present, than not.

Witholding the camera from the test... I think that would be really stupid, too, as that would just be to put fuel on the fire. Yup.... I am totally aware of how Geoff presents things at times.

The discussions we have had in advance have been on tests to prioritize and methodology.
I have offered to work around the clock while we shoot.
I am afraid of the timeframe to do the tests, as there are really a lot of cameras to walk through.

I am offered all original files I feel the need to have.

So far everything has been as fair and squeare as can be.
And like RED did not put any limits on what to say or publish when I had the prototype, Geoff has not asked me for anything, but ideas on how to make the tests good.

We disagree on a few things, but nothing that will really affect the result one way or the other. More a matter of preference.

Openness on how the tests are performed and RAW files to the people, have been my conditions, in addition to getting any files I want, and being part of how the tests are set up.

Dragon is the only camera I curently have... If you guys think I have any interest in making it look bad...
That kinda falls on its own rationale.

But that is my 2c.

LOL

Good luck Gunleik. I only subscribe to CML's "lens" thread, but even there Geoff has managed to take some pot shots at RED and Jim. He comes off quite inflammatory and passionate. A love him or hate him kind of personality. Perfect for the internet.

That said, I'm glad your doing the test. I imagine your passion and enthusiasm will be infectious, and I'm confident that Dragon...even with the old OLPF...will find a way to make some of those grumps smile. They'll moan about form factor and workflow, but I'm very curious to see what they think about the imagery.

Geoff's request that your participation be kept silent, while his is out in the open, sounds unusual, but oddly fitting from a man who appears to enjoy attention.

 

[Antony Newman]

@ Gunleik.

Kudos.

AJ

 

[Gunleik Groven]

AFAIK the tests will be presented at an Imago (european verion of ASC) event in London end of February. I might go there to join the presentation.

I have been at a few of these events, and cameras that are not present that could have been, generally do not fare very well.

And frankly, I have bet the next few years on Dragon, and I think I have done that from pretty rational reasons.

Geoff has taken a lot of potshots at Red. And I agree that that is silly.
Lately calling it Gods Own Camera, when presenting the Oscar Nominees.
Makes no sense.

And that discussion has totally gone into rather silly landscapes.

As I said, somethings obviously have gone sour.

But events like the Imago is important.
And not without influence.

And as I said, all in all I have decided to come, despite all the fuzz surrounding the last public real test I did. (which was not very pleasurable)

I think Dragon really is a next-gen cam for a few reasons. Better have someone there who thinks that and is not against the other cameras, than just have a huge presumption against RED present.

But that is my thinking.

 

[Jonathan Yonkers]

"Openness on how the tests are performed and RAW files to the people". That to me sums it all! Gunleik. Thank you for rolling up your sleeve and getting it done. Cant wait to see the test!

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Doing a side by side is good for letting MX users see how much better their shots would look if shot by Dragon.
It is also the basis of scientific method. Photography is both an art and a science.
The science part of this tries to rule out emotional bias. Emotions can sometimes trick you.

Yes, exactly. On a beautiful sunny day in Paris with my wife, all cameras feel great.