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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon upgrades

This is getting very interesting. I can't wait to see what the specs are for this "new weapon"
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Speculating on price seems crazy at this point. We don't know much of anything about what Weapon will give us. I'm sure there's a lot more going on than simply dropping the Dragon sensor and related guts into a new body. Look how significant the upgrade was going from RED One to EPIC, all while using the same sensor. EPIC was launched 5 years ago. I received my EPIC-M in early 2011. If we see a similar advancement like we saw from R1 to EPIC when going from EPIC to Weapon, then holy shmoley...

But for now, we don't have any specifics on how the upgrade program will work, what the specs of the new camera will be and all that. Hey, I'd love for the upgrade to be like $1500. Or maybe I'd love it to be $4500. I don't have a clue. If there turns out to be a 645 MF sized sensor based on Dragon pixels as an available option, I'm probably going to buy it, price be damned. If you have to ask how much it costs, you probably can't afford it anyway. Funny thing is, I've already decided I'm going Carbon this time. ...Or at least I think I am. Heh.
Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,

Do you mean getting a Carbon Dragon or grafting a Carbon Weapon onto the non-Carbon Body, if compatible? If the former, care to share why you are making that choice?

Thank you very much

Fury
 
Perhaps the upgrade isn't that expensive, but maybe the module-architecture is refined: standard (current) frame rates or medium -- perhaps even higher -- just done with a "swap" of the new right side module, the one with the skull-W. This side module will cost nothing (well -- included in the up-grade), or something quite affordable, or has a "phantom" price tag. With that, the separation in Scarlet or Epic is kind of continued and extended. Am I too far off?

(BTW, rotate the W and you get a 3, as in third generation.)
 
Anyone remember the upgrade price from R1 to Epic? It's going to be similar to that.
 
Given my brief but attentive history with RED I would like to suggest the following:

1. The weapon upgrades won't roll out to the masses until 2017. The dragon sensor first was unveiled at NAB 2013. Just recently did the sensor make its way into a non-upgrade camera.
2. The weapon body will include the items that have been called "vaporware", or have disappeared over the past 3 years. The Meizler module and proxy module and I hope pro I/O (wi-fi).
3. The switchblade functionality will be incorporated directly into the body. It just seems strange to offer a $1000 product just to control to camera.
4. Jared knows exactly whats he's doing and pays attention to this forum far more than anyone thinks. He runs a business and does it well.
5. WISH: Because RED likes to be the baddest boy on the block and make the biggest splash. RED @ NAB 16 takes the wind out of some sails of the competition. All it would take is a RAM module to get RED into the high speed (phantom) game.
 
Do you think Red would face same problem like Microsoft to ask its customer to replace Window XP ? Epic still a good camera which give you good picture quality and for me to upgrade from Epic Dragon to Weapon only the HFR would convince. For many of us, picture quality from Epic Dragon is more than enough for normal usage.
 
Phan Duc Cuong said:
Do you think Red would face same problem like Microsoft to ask its customer to replace Window XP ? Epic still a good camera which give you good picture quality and for me to upgrade from Epic Dragon to Weapon only the HFR would convince. For many of us, picture quality from Epic Dragon is more than enough for normal usage.
Click to expand...

I think... The big difference between Red and Microsoft is ... Red offers products that most people here want. Just say'in :)
 
Dr. Sassi said:
Perhaps the upgrade isn't that expensive, but maybe the module-architecture is refined: standard (current) frame rates or medium -- perhaps even higher -- just done with a "swap" of the new right side module, the one with the skull-W. This side module will cost nothing (well -- included in the up-grade), or something quite affordable, or has a "phantom" price tag. With that, the separation in Scarlet or Epic is kind of continued and extended. Am I too far off?

(BTW, rotate the W and you get a 3, as in third generation.)
Click to expand...

I like the idea of more refined modularity, so that the core/essential upgrade is kept to a minimum set of enhanced features (and the lowest possible price), while allowing most of the upgrades/new features to be attached as separately chosen add-ons. Leaving it up to the buyer to apply to one basic type of camera (that has one name) the different functions/capabilities that would usually be confined to differently named models. Not sure how much I'd like the idea if I had to actually try and get it all designed, made and sold though.
 
Nick Fury said:
Hi Jeff,

Do you mean getting a Carbon Dragon or grafting a Carbon Weapon onto the non-Carbon Body, if compatible? If the former, care to share why you are making that choice?

Thank you very much

Fury
Click to expand...

Just as there was an upgrade path to go from EPIC (or EPIC-M) to a Carbon Dragon, I'm assuming there will be a similar path to go from my EPIC-M to a Carbon Weapon. Over the past couple years of shooting EPIC, I have often found myself in various situations where every tiny bit of weight savings could be huge. Drones, gimbals, even hand-held shooting stills... When Carbon Dragon came along, I almost did it, but passed due to the price premium. And reflecting on that, even knowing it at the time, I should have gone with the Carbon. I suppose I'll have to actually evaluate this when we have final specs and pricing, but that is my thinking at the moment. I've shot with Carbon Dragons here and there with my first hands-on in December 2013... Every time I work with one, I just think to myself, this is the camera I should have went with... But yeah, it's a big price to pay for a camera that offers nothing different other than shedding 20% of its mass. I have run into situations with gimbals or flying cameras where I've rented a Carbon while mine sat in its case, that adds up too.
 
Hi Jeff,

Copy that. I have one of each body and have had the experience of exactly what you are describing, from Rental clients, who wanted /NEEDED the weight savings of the Carbon. I got my Carbon end of 2013 and around that time calculated the savings per pound at a more expensive outlay than a pound of Gold... FF 1 year and the cost of the Carbon pound "savings" now "outweighs the Au++.

Then there is the image factor, which some really are enamored of....

The CF is the premier product line and also has pecking order dominance, concomitant with the investment in RED. All in not an unwise choice and continuing to prove wiser yet.

Looking forward to the CF Weapon options.

Thank you very much

Fury
 
Jarred, I think it's time to inject a small reminder into the discussion...

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Jeff Kilgroe said:
Just as there was an upgrade path to go from EPIC (or EPIC-M) to a Carbon Dragon, I'm assuming there will be a similar path to go from my EPIC-M to a Carbon Weapon....... But yeah, it's a big price to pay for a camera that offers nothing different other than shedding 20% of its mass..
Click to expand...

Yes there will be an Epic Dragon to Carbon Weapon path and this time the Carbon will actually do more.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes there will be an Epic Dragon to Carbon Weapon path and this time the Carbon will actually do more.
Click to expand...

Will this be alongside Epic Dragon to 'non' Carbon Weapon? Or does the move to Weapon create a 'hybrid' body?
 
Jarred,

Is weapon going to be a finished product or in beta phase when you start shipping?

Do you expect much higher demand for Weapon camera on sets than the current Epic Dragon?

Any chance for DNx or ProRes onboard?
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes there will be an Epic Dragon to Carbon Weapon path and this time the Carbon will actually do more.
Click to expand...

Sounds like Carbon is the new Epic.. No more Epic/Scarlet but just "Weapon / Carbon Weapon".. Interesting, and really curious about the Scarlet pool, will the "indie market" be left behind and abandoned? Hugely curious about that..
 
Mendes Nabil said:
Sounds like Carbon is the new Epic.. No more Epic/Scarlet but just "Weapon / Carbon Weapon".. Interesting, and really curious about the Scarlet pool, will the "indie market" be left behind and abandoned? Hugely curious about that..
Click to expand...

Or Scarlet Carbon Weapon will go down a smaller, less features, cheaper camera. When I jumped onto being a Red owner from being a Red user I thought that Scarlet was the only way, but when I did the numbers for what accessories I needed and the potential market I realized that Epic was as much a inde-choice as Scarlet. I believe that Scarlet will find a better place as a cheaper camera with less features than an Epic/Dragon/Weapon light.
 
Mendes Nabil said:
Interesting, and really curious about the Scarlet pool, will the "indie market" be left behind and abandoned? Hugely curious about that..
Click to expand...

That would be sad. There's not much cameras around that price. As an indie my projects don't require the extra power of the epic. And if I see that the end of the scarlet is programmed I will probably sell it and invest in another brand to follow and buy their accessories. Even If I love the scarlet. It's important to have the support of the brand.
But I don't really see Red letting down the Scarlet. The indies are an important part of their crowd. And why telling people to upgrade to scarlet dragon for the weapon upgrade if they finally change everything inside? I mean the weapon will keep the elements of the epic dragon and rehouse them in a more efficient way.
 
This is incredible news; When my GF Run&guns ... she'll actually be able to shoot in the right direction ;-)

Joking aside - sounds like this is going to take some of the pain of of hand holding, and catalyse artists interest in being 'behind the wheel'.

AJ

Jarred Land said:
Yes there will be an Epic Dragon to Carbon Weapon path and this time the Carbon will actually do more.
Click to expand...
 
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Jarred Land said:
Yes there will be an Epic Dragon to Carbon Weapon path and this time the Carbon will actually do more.
Click to expand...
EDIT- I think I get it now, will upgrade before NAB...The Red Team button wasn't working right, but I got it now guys, thanks! PS cant wait for weapon!
 
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