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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon upgrades

For the record I am looking forward to this upgrade. Just a little weirded out by the terms. Would love to see a lighter camera and some increased low light capabilities!
 
adam christl said:
There should be an overlap. There should be some transparency.

Just my humble opinion.
Click to expand...

I dont think there is a more transparent company than RED. This is a perfect example. I posted this info for you guys 2 months before any other company would, 2 months before the official release because I felt like you guys needed yet another warning that you need to go to Dragon if you want to follow the upgrade path. We can't put new technology into a camera 2 generations back and more than 5 years old. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand.

And nobody is forcing anyone... Epic is an awesome camera. The RED ONE is an awesome camera. You can keep whatever camera and be happy and shoot awesome images that are best in the world just like you did last week before you guys knew weapon existed.

This isn't me trying to fuck you guys or force you guys and this isn't some weird sales tactic... in fact me telling you this so early is the worst thing for me to do if I wanted to sell more inventory. This is me giving you guys a courtesy notice that if you want to take advantage of an incredibly generous upgrade program you can't move to the new system with a camera from 2 generations ago. Just like last time.

Weapon is a natural progression of our company going from sensor > body > sensor > body. Its the same path we have taken since day one. R1 came along, then we made the new MX sensor. Epic came along with a new body and used the same MX sensor. Then the Dragon sensor came along and it worked with the same body as Epic. Now there is a new body, Weapon, and it follows the same path. Then there will be a new sensor that comes next, and then a new body after that. Rinse and Repeat.

As for requesting an Overlap... that's not fair. As I already said Epic MX is more than 5 years old, and its a generation behind Dragon. There has been a huge overlap. A long long overlap with lots of opportunity to upgrade. We can't keep every generation of camera going forever.


And I get the whole " o a new thing came out so my old thing lost value " bitchfest. But its not fair to blame us for that.. that happens with everything. Cars, Cameras, Computers, you name it something new is going to come out eventually and whatever you buy always looses it's value the day after you take buy it and take it out of the box.

This all would be much easier if we didnt care about our customers so much. We could get rid of the upgrade program, just make a new camera, don't tell anyone about it , launch it on whatever day and don't offer discounts or trade-ins or whatever and just go hide in the bushes while the customers scream and yell. Every other camera company works like that.. and thats fine. But thats not us.
 
You fucking rock Jarred ;)

Jarred Land said:
I dont think there is a more transparent company than RED. This is a perfect example. I posted this info for you guys 2 months before any other company would, 2 months before the official release because I felt like you guys needed yet another warning that you need to go to Dragon if you want to follow the upgrade path. We can't put new technology into a camera 2 generations back and more than 5 years old. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand.

And nobody is forcing anyone... Epic is an awesome camera. The RED ONE is an awesome camera. You can keep whatever camera and be happy and shoot awesome images that are best in the world just like you did last week before you guys knew weapon existed.

This isn't me trying to fuck you guys or force you guys and this isn't some weird sales tactic... in fact me telling you this so early is the worst thing for me to do if I wanted to sell more inventory. This is me giving you guys a courtesy notice that if you want to take advantage of an incredibly generous upgrade program you can't move to the new system with a camera from 2 generations ago. Just like last time.

Weapon is a natural progression of our company going from sensor > body > sensor > body. Its the same path we have taken since day one. R1 came along, then we made the new MX sensor. Epic came along with a new body and used the same MX sensor. Then the Dragon sensor came along and it worked with the same body as Epic. Now there is a new body, Weapon, and it follows the same path. Then there will be a new sensor that comes next, and then a new body after that. Rinse and Repeat.

As for requesting an Overlap... that's not fair. As I already said Epic MX is more than 5 years old, and its a generation behind Dragon. There has been a huge overlap. A long long overlap with lots of opportunity to upgrade. We can't keep every generation of camera going forever.


And I get the whole " o a new thing came out so my old thing lost value " bitchfest. But its not fair to blame us for that.. that happens with everything. Cars, Cameras, Computers, you name it something new is going to come out eventually and whatever you buy always looses it's value the day after you take buy it and take it out of the box.

This all would be much easier if we didnt care about our customers so much. We could get rid of the upgrade program, just make a new camera, don't tell anyone about it , launch it on whatever day and don't offer discounts or trade-ins or whatever and just go hide in the bushes while the customers scream and yell. Every other camera company works like that.. and thats fine. But thats not us.
Click to expand...
 
Jarred Land said:
This all would be much easier if we didnt care about our customers so much. We could get rid of the upgrade program, just make a new camera, don't tell anyone about it , launch it on whatever day and don't offer discounts or trade-ins or whatever and just go hide in the bushes while the customers scream and yell. Every other camera company works like that.. and thats fine. But thats not us.
Click to expand...


And I agreed,

Hahahahahah @ "hide in the bushes"
 
Jarred Land said:
I dont think there is a more transparent company than RED. This is a perfect example. I posted this info for you guys 2 months before any other company would, 2 months before the official release because I felt like you guys needed yet another warning that you need to go to Dragon if you want to follow the upgrade path. We can't put new technology into a camera 2 generations back and more than 5 years old. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand.

And nobody is forcing anyone... Epic is an awesome camera. The RED ONE is an awesome camera. You can keep whatever camera and be happy and shoot awesome images that are best in the world just like you did last week before you guys knew weapon existed.

This isn't me trying to fuck you guys or force you guys and this isn't some weird sales tactic... in fact me telling you this so early is the worst thing for me to do if I wanted to sell more inventory. This is me giving you guys a courtesy notice that if you want to take advantage of an incredibly generous upgrade program you can't move to the new system with a camera from 2 generations ago. Just like last time.

Weapon is a natural progression of our company going from sensor > body > sensor > body. Its the same path we have taken since day one. R1 came along, then we made the new MX sensor. Epic came along with a new body and used the same MX sensor. Then the Dragon sensor came along and it worked with the same body as Epic. Now there is a new body, Weapon, and it follows the same path. Then there will be a new sensor that comes next, and then a new body after that. Rinse and Repeat.

As for requesting an Overlap... that's not fair. As I already said Epic MX is more than 5 years old, and its a generation behind Dragon. There has been a huge overlap. A long long overlap with lots of opportunity to upgrade. We can't keep every generation of camera going forever.


And I get the whole " o a new thing came out so my old thing lost value " bitchfest. But its not fair to blame us for that.. that happens with everything. Cars, Cameras, Computers, you name it something new is going to come out eventually and whatever you buy always looses it's value the day after you take buy it and take it out of the box.

This all would be much easier if we didnt care about our customers so much. We could get rid of the upgrade program, just make a new camera, don't tell anyone about it , launch it on whatever day and don't offer discounts or trade-ins or whatever and just go hide in the bushes while the customers scream and yell. Every other camera company works like that.. and thats fine. But thats not us.
Click to expand...

(begins slow clap)
 
At the end of the day Red is a business and technology moves on. I guess people always expect more when you give them a lot. Its kind of like stock market performance... you hit your numbers one quarter and investors want more profit the next quarter.

What I would like to know is if I can keep my dragon and just buy a brand new Weapon sharpish... I mean as soon as it becomes available... I don't want an upgrade... I was thinking of adding an Alexa to our inventory but you just crashed that plan... decisions decisions (Arrrrrr)
 
Jarred Land said:
But thats not us.
Click to expand...
And I sit back and say to myself ... Thank God! I for one appreciate this company and its innovations. I certainly appreciate the upgrade path. It may not be easy financially every time but at least its there if I want it, and man I want it!
 
Jarred Land said:
I dont think there is a more transparent company than RED. This is a perfect example. I posted this info for you guys 2 months before any other company would, 2 months before the official release because I felt like you guys needed yet another warning that you need to go to Dragon if you want to follow the upgrade path. We can't put new technology into a camera 2 generations back and more than 5 years old. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand.

And nobody is forcing anyone... Epic is an awesome camera. The RED ONE is an awesome camera. You can keep whatever camera and be happy and shoot awesome images that are best in the world just like you did last week before you guys knew weapon existed.

This isn't me trying to fuck you guys or force you guys and this isn't some weird sales tactic... in fact me telling you this so early is the worst thing for me to do if I wanted to sell more inventory. This is me giving you guys a courtesy notice that if you want to take advantage of an incredibly generous upgrade program you can't move to the new system with a camera from 2 generations ago. Just like last time.

Weapon is a natural progression of our company going from sensor > body > sensor > body. Its the same path we have taken since day one. R1 came along, then we made the new MX sensor. Epic came along with a new body and used the same MX sensor. Then the Dragon sensor came along and it worked with the same body as Epic. Now there is a new body, Weapon, and it follows the same path. Then there will be a new sensor that comes next, and then a new body after that. Rinse and Repeat.

As for requesting an Overlap... that's not fair. As I already said Epic MX is more than 5 years old, and its a generation behind Dragon. There has been a huge overlap. A long long overlap with lots of opportunity to upgrade. We can't keep every generation of camera going forever.


And I get the whole " o a new thing came out so my old thing lost value " bitchfest. But its not fair to blame us for that.. that happens with everything. Cars, Cameras, Computers, you name it something new is going to come out eventually and whatever you buy always looses it's value the day after you take buy it and take it out of the box.

This all would be much easier if we didnt care about our customers so much. We could get rid of the upgrade program, just make a new camera, don't tell anyone about it , launch it on whatever day and don't offer discounts or trade-ins or whatever and just go hide in the bushes while the customers scream and yell. Every other camera company works like that.. and thats fine. But thats not us.
Click to expand...

Some people can't recognize the difference between the PURSUIT of Happiness (RDC customer) and GUARANTEED happiness (living at home with doting parents.)
 
NOSA OBAYIUWANA said:
I think Jarred has pretty much made it clear that this is a body upgrade.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But there have also been hints that they have figured out ways to get more from the current sensor. And by Jarred shooting from the back of his truck while driving around at night... well, maybe there's no need for OLPFs anymore (more DR?)
 
I don't know why it took me so long to think of this, so just in case someone out there shares my lack of putting 2 and 2 together, here's this thought... If you REALLY want to be in the upgrade path, but own an Epic MX and are bummed out that your camera is near the "end of the road" with no way to get the funds in time to upgrade to Epic Dragon, why not sell it and buy a Scarlet Dragon? It's not very practical, but it's an option.
 
Jarred, don't 100% agree with you, but totally respect you. This direct and immediate response is one major reason I dig RED. I never thought you guys were out to fuck the customer. Still don't. Still love the product. Still think the deadline is... weird. I really do. Asking people to commit without knowing what they're lining up for is a tough one. That being said this explanation is really impressive. The most straight forward response I've ever heard. Even if I'm not completely into this - I am still into this company and I do believe you guys believe in your customer and understand you can't appease everyone. You have a really broad user base. I think a lot of the critique came from the fact that people left scarlet to go to epic as it was implied that scarlet would not be upgraded but epic would and then putting a timeline on the upgrade based on a really vague intangible... well it's an odd one. 5 year product aside - a lot of people bought this within a year or so - that's the reality. Just saying. Still support and love you guys. Always have. Always will.

It's not a bitchfest to critique for the record. Nobody ever said you guys are fucking anyone over. At least I didn't see it. You should welcome the opinions and comments. It's not a hate fest. These are suggestions and opnions. I would hope you would take this and other imput to heart. We are your users and your loyal base.
Still a loyal red user. Now and forever.
 
Jarred..... we are all worried about the transportability of our accessories to the new box. We understand that some things will not fit... can you just let us know that at least there has been some consideration with regards to making sure some accessories will still be usable.
 
I can't wait to see the new form factor. I find this Weapon tidbits more exciting then Dragon. I too would love a lighter camera for my indie work. Epic is a great footprint but lighter similar to a DSLR (at the most basic configuration) - would be awesome. I also can't wait for the battery/power setup. Hope Red Volts last longer and stay light.

Jarred, we definitely appreciate the heads up and the reassurance that RED isn't simply sitting back. Keep innovating!!!
 
adam christl said:
Asking people to commit without knowing what they're lining up for is a tough one.
Click to expand...

I think you're conflating two things. You're not committing to Weapon, you're committing to Dragon (and an upgradeable path), which is a known entity at this point. If you want to take advantage of Weapon discounts for owning Dragon, that's something beyond getting your MX upgraded to Dragon before that option expires.


I think a lot of the critique came from the fact that people left scarlet to go to epic as it was implied that scarlet would not be upgraded but epic would and then putting a timeline on the upgrade based on a really vague intangible... well it's an odd one.
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier, I don't think that's quite accurate. There's still no upgrade path to Epic Dragon from Scarlet Dragon, which is what Jarred stated.
 
Leap of faith is very important. And when upgrades come slowly start the changeover process, so you guys don't feel bitten. I agree with Jarred and the RED philosophy. And miss Jim being on REDUSER. But looks like he is the mad scientist along with other crazy people in RED's R&D cooking up the future. Kudos guys!!!

Jarred Land said:
I dont think there is a more transparent company than RED. This is a perfect example. I posted this info for you guys 2 months before any other company would, 2 months before the official release because I felt like you guys needed yet another warning that you need to go to Dragon if you want to follow the upgrade path. We can't put new technology into a camera 2 generations back and more than 5 years old. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand.

And nobody is forcing anyone... Epic is an awesome camera. The RED ONE is an awesome camera. You can keep whatever camera and be happy and shoot awesome images that are best in the world just like you did last week before you guys knew weapon existed.

This isn't me trying to fuck you guys or force you guys and this isn't some weird sales tactic... in fact me telling you this so early is the worst thing for me to do if I wanted to sell more inventory. This is me giving you guys a courtesy notice that if you want to take advantage of an incredibly generous upgrade program you can't move to the new system with a camera from 2 generations ago. Just like last time.

Weapon is a natural progression of our company going from sensor > body > sensor > body. Its the same path we have taken since day one. R1 came along, then we made the new MX sensor. Epic came along with a new body and used the same MX sensor. Then the Dragon sensor came along and it worked with the same body as Epic. Now there is a new body, Weapon, and it follows the same path. Then there will be a new sensor that comes next, and then a new body after that. Rinse and Repeat.

As for requesting an Overlap... that's not fair. As I already said Epic MX is more than 5 years old, and its a generation behind Dragon. There has been a huge overlap. A long long overlap with lots of opportunity to upgrade. We can't keep every generation of camera going forever.


And I get the whole " o a new thing came out so my old thing lost value " bitchfest. But its not fair to blame us for that.. that happens with everything. Cars, Cameras, Computers, you name it something new is going to come out eventually and whatever you buy always looses it's value the day after you take buy it and take it out of the box.

This all would be much easier if we didnt care about our customers so much. We could get rid of the upgrade program, just make a new camera, don't tell anyone about it , launch it on whatever day and don't offer discounts or trade-ins or whatever and just go hide in the bushes while the customers scream and yell. Every other camera company works like that.. and thats fine. But thats not us.
Click to expand...
 
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