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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon update...

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Eirik Tyrihjel said:
Unfortunatly I wouldn´t bet on it, I can´t for the world imagine why anyone would choose Alexa over Epic today, so if they can do it today, they probably will tomorrow, but we can always hope ;-)
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I'm often given a list of about 5-10 things. Some valid, some because of bad information. There's one thing you can't change and that's the name on the camera. I sometimes feel that no matter what RED does, there will be those who fight against them because they don't like what RED represents. When you shake up an industry, you ruffle some feathers along the way. Right now I'm booked on a big commercial that is trying to decide between Alexa and Epic. Fortunately there are good, healthy discussions taking place about the strengths and weaknesses of each system and they will decide based on what's ultimately best for the job. That's the way it should be.

But I love what Jim has announced. This sounds like a great upgrade. More dynamic range is a good thing. Looking forward to hearing about more specific specs such as improvements in highlight handling, color rendition, etc. And as always, this is a great deal that Jim is offering. Seems like most current Epic owners will essentially get a new camera within the next year. The current sensor is no slouch, so this is certainly icing on the cake. RED ONE>Epic Trade in>Dragon Upgrade. Yes, that is a very affordable path for those who took it. Nicely done Jim!
 
I'm in the queue, sharpening my elbows.

But it's got me rethinking my glass-buying plans. You know, this might be the final nail in the coffin of a lot of old cinema glass.

No... that came across wrong. All that old glass will still produce gorgeous images on Dragon... windowed to a lower resolution. But they're no longer future-proof.

Maybe, maybe, the increase in sensor size with Dragon is the only slight mis-step in the RDCs plans here, for that very reason. Maybe they should have produced TWO sensors; bitten the bullet and gone full-frame 35mm for those who want to shoot on stills glass at that resolution, and produced a second sensor, lower resolution, MX size or even slightly *smaller*, for those who want to stay firmly in S35, use all the existing glass, and just get the very best sensor they can in that world.

As it is, it seems to me that Dragon might fall unhappily between the two worlds; people will get frustrated that so many cinema lenses can't cover its full frame. Sure they can window, but still...

Help me here guru guys who have been in the business much longer than me - what prime sets do you expect will cover the full Dragon sensor? Especially fast primes. The only one I can think of off the top of my head are CP.2, and even then the 18mm might have a problem IIRC?

(oh and I agree with Mr. Duclos - it's long past time the 'covers 4K', 'covers 5K' etc. nonsense was buried. Does that mean 4K MX? 4K windowed on Dragon? 4K on any other camera? Camera guys, specify the *image circle* your sensor needs. Lens vendors, tell us what *image circle* your lens covers. Job done!)

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
I'm in the queue, sharpening my elbows.

But it's got me rethinking my glass-buying plans. You know, this might be the final nail in the coffin of a lot of old cinema glass.

No... that came across wrong. All that old glass will still produce gorgeous images on Dragon... windowed to a lower resolution. But they're no longer future-proof.



Maybe, maybe, the increase in sensor size with Dragon is the only slight mis-step in the RDCs plans here, for that very reason. Maybe they should have produced TWO sensors; bitten the bullet and gone full-frame 35mm for those who want to shoot on stills glass at that resolution, and produced a second sensor, lower resolution, MX size or even slightly *smaller*, for those who want to stay firmly in S35, use all the existing glass, and just get the very best sensor they can in that world.

As it is, it seems to me that Dragon might fall unhappily between the two worlds; people will get frustrated that so many cinema lenses can't cover its full frame. Sure they can window, but still...

Help me here guru guys who have been in the business much longer than me - what prime sets do you expect will cover the full Dragon sensor? Especially fast primes. The only one I can think of off the top of my head are CP.2, and even then the 18mm might have a problem IIRC?

(oh and I agree with Mr. Duclos - it's long past time the 'covers 4K', 'covers 5K' etc. nonsense was buried. Does that mean 4K MX? 4K windowed on Dragon? 4K on any other camera? Camera guys, specify the *image circle* your sensor needs. Lens vendors, tell us what *image circle* your lens covers. Job done!)

Mike
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mike...Canon K35's will cover, Van Diemen Leica . Probably Leica-C . The new canon cine primes. Duclos 11-16. I suspect the RED 50-150 will as well.
 
Robert Horwell said:
mike...Canon K35's will cover, Van Diemen Leica . Probably Leica-C . The new canon cine primes. Duclos 11-16. I suspect the RED 50-150 will as well.
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And you're selling a set of K35s... :-)

They were already on my shortlist. I'll be in the UK in a week or two, may want to shoot a test...

What about the Russians? Illuminas? Elites?

Mike
 
Question; What will the "recommended" ISO be? Or the sweet spot with the most DR least noise etc.? And while you're at it, what about expected max frame rate at 6K? Thank you.
 
Question: will 5k epic X still be available to buy when the dragon is out of the cave?

In other word will the 6k dragon replace the X/M epic in the product range? and if not will X and M drop in price when the dragon comes out.

It would be nice to have the options of 4k,5k,6k all coming at justified price levels, to pic from.

Or I guess our old 5k epic sensors can be repacked and sold as scarlets..?
 
I think the frame rate is set to the kind of mag used.. the red red mags are coming and before end of year there is probably even faster mags available. or?
 
Scott Brown said:
Fantastic news Jim, our $6K is waiting - remember to keep the Dragon cool, even if it means she's larger :o) Cool means quiet with lees fan noise which keeps our sound guys happy.

Best wishes

Scott
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I second that request. I'm excited about the sharpness, sensitivity, and DR of course, but faster blackshading and cooler operation would eliminate the Epic's only shortcomings. Go RED team!!
Cheers,
 
Jarred Land said:
Epic -M owners will get priority for the Dragon upgrade.
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Love it! Can't wait! Thanks you guys for all the hard work! EPIC has already changed everything, helped build my business, helped getting better images I ever imagined, helped me dream bigger. So now it gets even better? Hell yeah!!! :)
 
Ray Sullivan said:
Yeah, realistically what can we expect though?

5k at 24fps at 6:1 maybe? With greater dynamic range than the MX... but how much work does a Scarlet need to get to there
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I'd be just happy with upgraded Scarlet doing 4K at lower compression, improved native DR and something around 60 fps. I'd love to have some kind of oversampling module that allows to record say 2K Raw without cropping the sensor.
 
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This is fantastic. Scarlet has been blowing my mind every time I've used it since the beginning of the year. But the improved low light performance with a cleaner image is going to be very very welcome. The only other thing (other than those nice high frame rates of course) that I would truly like to see is an improved silent or close to silent fan for the camera...
 
I'm actually kinda excited for this one....

I personally don't care about 5k or 6k or 8k or so on...

but I do care about dynamic range, and better low light accommodations, so this excites me:)
 
I just presented my "RED, CINEMA 4D, NUKE" workflow at Siggraph (Exhibition) on our booth, and bragged that the Dragon might provide 15 stops and has the ability to add more with HDR-X.

Why do you need to prove me wrong the day after (16 stops), hehe. Seriously, all of that sounds great and I look forward to update next year.

I love the concept since I saw it during NAB'06 and it is getting better and better.
 
Can't we just do away with HDRx after the Dragon upgrade? It seems HDRx would really push the data envelope utilizing a 6k sensor, especially one with lower compression ratios.
 
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