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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Update + A.D.D.

When mightvthere be a version we can check out?

Is is ADD going to be an all the time thing or maybe just for stills or lowlight shots , etc.

battistella
 
HAH, totally -- everyone who's updating to the trashcan will keep their old tower, slowly to process ADDs.

Jarred, can ADD be used for motion (understandably long render times) and, if so, be clicked "on" just before export (as in, available in the SDK)? OH, and can it eek out anything more from MX, or is the info just not there to enhance?
 
David Battistella said:
When mightvthere be a version we can check out?

Is is ADD going to be an all the time thing or maybe just for stills or lowlight shots , etc.

battistella
Click to expand...

Next Week :)

ADD is not on all the time.. there will be a little button in RCX next week that you can press to export a still processed with A.D.D.

The guys pulling stills will probably press that button every time instead of the normal snapshot button for important shots.

The motion guys probably wont be taking the time to do every single frame of their movie in batch mode unless it is really, really important.
 
jacob.schwarz said:
For those of us who are planning on upgrading to a carbon dragon when we upgrade the dragon, should we plan on getting a MiniSDD module and Magnesium PL mount included in the upgrade cost?
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Meaning the upgrade from EPIC M-X aluminum to Carbon Fiber DRAGON? Carbon fiber is always paired with magnesium mount. Yes, once shipping mini-mag side CF SSD module, you can have either side SSD module option as part of upgrade.

keith morton said:
Can I trade in my brand new mini 512 SSD for one of the old 512's?
Click to expand...

Nope, we are just exhausting (or may even be out of) the old red 1.8" REDMAG 512s. So, moving forward, if you want 512s, mini-mag is the way to go.
 
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Jarred Land said:
Next Week :)

ADD is not on all the time.. there will be a little button in RCX next week that you can press to export a still processed with A.D.D.

The guys pulling stills will probably press that button every time instead of the normal snapshot button for important shots.

The motion guys probably wont be taking the time to do every single frame of their movie in batch mode unless it is really, really important.
Click to expand...

... ;)
 
Very cool.

Love these developments for the stills but love that it's there for motion when needed.
Its going to get crazy down the road as it's optimized and maybe enabled in the SDK.

Battistella
 
Robert Horwell said:
Jarred, when do you think you will start to swap out the OLPF for those of us who have Dragon? Thank you.
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We are running OLPF updates alongside the normal DRAGON update line just downstairs from where I sit. You will get notice via email blast when we are up to your spot in queue for OLPF update.

Going as quickly as we can, but all the logistics of sensor upgrades, OLPF updates, etc, it's a lot of moving parts.
 
Jarred Land said:
ADD is not on all the time..

The motion guys probably wont be taking the time to do every single frame of their movie in batch mode unless it is really, really important.
Click to expand...

Will this run, or eventually run, on the GPU? Multiple CPUs? Trying to decide if I should go with dual 8-cores or something bigger now.

When you add a "better quality" button (feature), everyone will try and use it. :)
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
There's a lot of mis-understanding of HDMI 2.0. You DON'T need HDMI 2.0 for 4K. HDMI 1.4 supports 4K up to 30fps - you need HDMI 2.0 if you want 4K framerates higher than 30. I'm a 24 fps guy - hate 30, 48, 60 etc. :)
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Though trying to use a UI at 30Hz all the time kinda sucks.

There's also no X79 boards with Thunderbolt, so unfortunately you can't have it all on Windows - gotta choose between big guns and thunderbolt.
 
Jarred Land said:
Next Week :)

ADD is not on all the time.. there will be a little button in RCX next week that you can press to export a still processed with A.D.D.

The guys pulling stills will probably press that button every time instead of the normal snapshot button for important shots.

The motion guys probably wont be taking the time to do every single frame of their movie in batch mode unless it is really, really important.
Click to expand...

Much of my business is architectural photography. I'm excited about trying to use the Dragon on shoots where I want to shoot motion with architectural stills in mind. The latitude I get with the D800 is pretty staggering and what I'm able to pull from the low and the high end in post. I can't believe the day is finally coming that this can be done with a movie camera :)
 
Hmmm 10 minute/frame renders? Good thing I have REDLine setup on our thinkbox Deadline farm, that's like a 3D rendering workflow. Any thoughts on distributed processing being added to RCX? Run a few slave RCX copies in the BG on the farm and then have them stream frames.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Hmmm 10 minute/frame renders? Good thing I have REDLine setup on our thinkbox Deadline farm, that's like a 3D rendering workflow. Any thoughts on distributed processing being added to RCX? Run a few slave RCX copies in the BG on the farm and then have them stream frames.
Click to expand...


seconds... not minutes :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Time for an update.


As you guys have probably noticed, an army of Dragons are out in the wild and we are upgrading cameras as fast as we can now that the new OLPF's are in and being dropped into all new cameras and upgrades. Full steam ahead.


Due to the demand on Carbon Dragon we have also added another separate tooling and machine line for them - and it is now fully online as of this last weekend. We are back to the 7-10 day processing times for new Carbon orders which is roughly the time it takes to make each Carbon Dragon camera. Hopefully, we can get far enough ahead to have some in stock to make processing just a few days.


The Mini-SSD Side Carbon Module has finally hit green light status and is now entering pilot run production. They should start shipping to existing Carbon Dragon owners later next month. Just for reference, it takes about 15 hours to make each Side SSD Carbon Module. They are much more complex than the normal full-size carbon SSD modules with their own integrated passive cooling system and entirely new mechanicals.


Brent and I get about 200 emails each a day asking two questions: When is their upgrade number up followed by if they can jump the line. It's actually really hard on us to have to say "no" 200 times a day. You guys are like family but we just can't jump people ahead (as much as we want to) as that makes a mess out of the entire process.


The upgrade pace is impossible to estimate since it relies on the customers to send their camera in on their own schedule after being notified. And, just like last time when we went from RED ONE to Epic it swings from one week getting truckloads in to the next week only getting bucketloads.


If I had to field a guess.. and don't hold me to it.. I would say we should jump into the second priority group at the end of March / first week of April. Remember, the first group was the EPIC-M owners and early RED adoptors that had the opportunity to order upgrades those first few days of NAB last year. Once we hit that second group the upgrades should speed up as we will roll into a larger customer group and start shotgun blasting out upgrade notices. The upgrade times once your camera is sent in will be a bit longer since the queue turns internal but we should be able to process a lot more cameras in the same amount of time since we will be less reliant on waiting on a small group of your schedules.

I know it's been tough waiting.. but Dragon is definitely worth the wait.


Now for something new.... A.D.D.


Graeme and Rob have been busy working on something special... and we will be releasing a beta build of RCX with A.D.D. ( Advanced Dragon Debayer ) at the end of next week.


A.D.D. is a new hyper-debayer algorithm for Dragon that spends a ton of time analyzing every single pixel and creating the best frame possible. It doesn't pull any punches, it processes everything at the highest degree possible and squeezes out every last ounce buried deep inside Dragon R3Ds.

It is incredibly expensive computationally... each frame will take seconds to process. The results are absolutely phenomenal.

For all you guys using the Dragon to pull stills from motion, it truly can't be beat.
Click to expand...

Last paragraph has me drooling more than ever (not for stills - for hyper obsessive quality in motion). Does it affect color precision? Noise floor?
 
Kevin Marshall said:
Though trying to use a UI at 30Hz all the time kinda sucks.

There's also no X79 boards with Thunderbolt, so unfortunately you can't have it all on Windows - gotta choose between big guns and thunderbolt.
Click to expand...

X99 is a month or so away....
 
Jarred Land said:
seconds... not minutes :)
Click to expand...

So 10X24 = 240 seconds per second of video.
240x60 = 14400 seconds per minutes of video

Let's say a 3 minute video (music video, fashion video…)

43 200 seconds. That's 720 minutes or 12 hours. Worth it for a final render, me thinks.

On a 30 second spot it's just 2 hours (very, very worth it - no brainer)

Unless that 10 second estimate is based on a system way beyond what we can afford to keep here.
 
You gotta keep on speculatin'

You gotta keep on speculatin'

I would guess one part of the reason that the ADD decode takes so long is that it is looking at previous and subsequent frames to provide the algorithm with more comparative data. Presumably the algorithm would make better processed pixels if it had better "intel" on what is real detail and what is noise. Another poster suggested a more sophisticated Bayer offset correction, which I find plausible.

I love the idea of "invisible" bits that can be leveraged for more precise code values. I wonder if there is a way to use these "invisible" bits to beef up the portion of the linear scale that gets shortchanged by the math?

Fun stuff!

Cheers - #19
 
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