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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon, sight unseen? Really?

B

Brant Hadfield

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Don't get me wrong. I am very interested in Dragon, the new color science and implications of the DR. I couldn't care less about more K's. I have been making money off my scarlet for a year, and nobody has ever once uttered anything close to, "Great, but I wish it were sharper". Quite the opposite actually.

So without any footage revealed from this new sensor to the best of my knowledge, Red are accepting your orders, but tell you that if you change your mind before paying, you cannot do the upgrade to your Scarlet body. Ever. And just a 90-day warranty, I understand? So with no footage at all, and these rather odd conditions, people tripping over each other to order. Just wondering if I am missing something here or if there's some footage out there I haven't seen yet.
 
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Some people trust RED and have their minds made up about which upgrade path to take. Whoever needs to wait and see footage and weigh their option can do that and make the decision when they're sure.
 
Of course I will wait and see how the footage looks once it is posted before making a decision, but honestly, every time RED has introduced something new, it has always been a step forward. So I have very very high hopes and expectations to that end. And the discussion from 5k to 6k. Most work I do now, and most work of others whom I know and work with, finish for 1080, so I can zoom in and crop quite liberally. But once 4K does become online and television standard...6k will be quite useful for that, and I will be ready. It may be far off for TV, but I'm the type who likes to be prepared.
 
For me one important point is the crop factor. I can't find any answer to that. Different versions. If it's the same crop factor as the epic mx (1.3) at 5k, then it's wonderful. Some guys told me it's 1.6 at 5k. That's less nice.
Same for pixels size. Dragon pixels are smaller. Is dragon 4k as sharp as MX 4k? Or is there a difference?
What about compression?
That would be nice to know to make a decision.
 
sam karr said:
For me one important point is the crop factor. I can't find any answer to that. Different versions. If it's the same crop factor as the epic mx (1.3) at 5k, then it's wonderful. Some guys told me it's 1.6 at 5k. That's less nice.
Same for pixels size. Dragon pixels are smaller. Is dragon 4k as sharp as MX 4k? Or is there a difference?
What about compression?
That would be nice to know to make a decision.
Click to expand...

Yes, very good points. Which is why the policy of telling you that if you step in line now, based on the text book definition of faith, and then decide to opt out once you know more, your Scarlet is "executed", and will not be upgraded. This, to me, feels like a hard-sell tactic, and makes me automatically skeptical. At the moment, it just doesn't feel right to me. Others obviously feel differently.
 
"All special deals like this end up closing. Logistically, a nightmare to keep them open-ended. I think you have a little while to ponder..."

That's some bad news .... No exact infos until shipping, but ending deals .....
 
We decided to upgrade our Scarlet to an Epic MX. RED has provided a great deal for this especially considering our Scarlet was one of those BT's that were cheap to begin with.

We'll wait to see how much of a difference in picture the Dragon sensor makes. We don't need the 6k as we almost always shoot 4k HD now, thought that could certainly change in the future if we start finishing in 4k. (not even close now. 90% of what we do is delivered via web videos now)

I think this Scarlet-Epic upgrade deal is an awesome one, though.

Thanks.

Kevin
 
Well said Patrick.

I'm holding out for official specs and images from Dragon, or until they give us an upgrade deadline.

99% sure I'll be trading in for an Epic-MX. What an amazing opportunity, just when you think it can't get any better.
 
I agree.. the trade for the Epic is clearly the best deal, not to mention the bonus of having the option to upgrade. How much better can the Scarlet-D's 5k possibly be than the Epic's 5k? ~25% I'd say at best.
 
Jason Ano said:
I agree.. the trade for the Epic is clearly the best deal, not to mention the bonus of having the option to upgrade. How much better can the Scarlet-D's 5k possibly be than the Epic's 5k? ~25% I'd say at best.
Click to expand...

That's why it's so hard. 2000iso vs 800iso. 3 stops more of DR. New color science ("Skin tones are softer, primary colors are more vibrant, and subtle color variations are discernibly remarkable"). Both 5k. Some usable slo mo on the scarlet-D. If it has the colors of the alexa, the scarlet-D is a fantastic camera.
 
I agree that Scarlet D has its advantages and seems like a great deal...but I will be choosing the Epic MX upgrade due to the face that I now own their flag ship that can then be upgraded to full Epic Dragon, seems like the smartest choice in my opinion.
 
It's confirmed in the FAQs - that you can NOT upgrade Scarlet-D to Epic-D... so now the Epic upgrade is definitely going to be the smarter choice.
 
If you bought a Scarlet-D and made a buttload of money with it (to the point where an Epic-D made sense), you could always sell it to offset the Epic-D purchase.
 
I must admit that I'm a bit afraid to take the epic->epic dragon road. It means taking the time to take this road. And the prices are changing quickly these last monthes. Paying 19000$ to have some more framerates and 6k (when we know that all major productions are windowing the epic and the red one images to 4k or less most of the time) with the risk that red divides again the price in a few monthes with the concurrence progressing fast. Paying 9500$ feels like a safer way, losing less money and still having an incredible camera that is making some better images than the epic mx (for moderate slow mo or regular speed images, as I can't really see how someone will notice the difference between 5k and 6k).
 
I and many others just want to see some images before buying. I'm sure it will be a great sensor, but help alleviate my concerns before I flop down almost $10k!!! It was a bummer to go to the NAB and not see any dragon images.
 
Yeah I was leaning toward Scarlet D, but the more I think about it, the more a brand new Epic-X which is proven to be (mostly) reliable and trusted in the field makes sense. Especially since I can go Dragon eventually anyway.

Regardless, I just like the whole upgrade path option. I was devastated after selling my F3 for 50% retail a few months after purchase.
 
Jeremy Wiles said:
I and many others just want to see some images before buying. I'm sure it will be a great sensor, but help alleviate my concerns before I flop down almost $10k!!! It was a bummer to go to the NAB and not see any dragon images.
Click to expand...

My hunch, and this is just a hunch, is that Red is in a mad dash to get the color done, and it may be proving pretty tricky. If I read the brief description of the difference provided by the Dragon sensor, it would also describe, at least verbally, the differences of the Alexa. I am just concerned by the policy which locks you into either paying for the upgrade, or prohibiting it in the future, if you sign up now, and don't care for what you see. They say every rose, has its thorn. (Thank you Axle). I would like to know what they are before I open up the vault.
 
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