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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon or Weapon for features

A

andrew wehde

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Hey Guys - i am looking for some insight in regards to an investment into a used Dragon or a new weapon. Both cameras would be kitted out nicely for a feature production. In terms of 3rd party Add ons, Can the Dragon still get relatively close to what the Weapon is offering with its new expandability? In terms of Image quality, are we seeing a big difference between the Weapon over the Dragon? The ability to import 3D luts into the weapon is great and is unfortent the dragon can't do this. Has anyone been successful with taking a 3d out and getting it into the dragon via converting through redcine?

thanks!

Contact@andrewwehde.com
 
Dragon is a sensor.

Weapon is a body.

Are you asking Epic vs Weapon? Or Scarlet vs Weapon?

Both use Dragon sensor.
 
This will probably burn down to personal workflow / budget decisions. Epic Dragon will still produce excellent images and if budget is tight you might be able to invest more in other divisions (set, lighting, crew). Direct recording of ProRes for dailies may be a reason to switch to Weapon.
 
There is definitely an image quality improvement from Epic Dragon to Weapon Dragon.

However most of the difference is workflow related. ProRes, LUTs, better ergonomics, improved modules/3rd party modules, wifi built in, etc. Whether or not those are enough for you is a personal decision and also dependent on what you're able to buy an Epic Dragon for these days.

Personally I would not invest in DSMC1 systems today if for no other reason than being on DSMC2 sets you up for whatever the next sensor is. DSMC1 is not obsolete by any stretch but if I'm investing new money in the Red ecosystem today I'd look at Weapon if the budget permits.
 
Weapon looks better, from deep firsthand experience, Plus a lot of the annoyances with the Epic body are gone
 
Weapon. From an AC point of view.

- The wave of new accessories/modules makes the body really lightweight and compact wether your in PL or EF, even more in EF.
You can switch from a big cinema rig with everything, to a very discreet one with only life support in 10 minutes.

- The quality of the new Red touch makes TVlogic and Smallhd out of the game. No more Canon batteries or Dtaps.
DP with the 4.7/EVF and AC with the 7"/4.7" ang you're good to go.

- Weapon reacts differently in the high-center of the curve. Channels are more "separated", it's really life like, Alexa fan may not like it as alexa is kind of greenish on the skins.
The new OLPF design is a no-brainer. Seriously. I should receive a set of Kippertie in addition to the 3 Reds really soon, and I can't wait to test them.

- The 3DLUT import is something I use on every shoot with custom or downloaded luts.
Impulz and Osiris 3D Luts are great, and also a great starting point.
Some don't work, but you can adapt them in Lightroom, Photoshop or OSX only softs like Latice.

- Finally, Prores 2k 422 LT (I don't really care about the 4k 444) for you dailies, though the LUt integration is not optimal yet.

- Beware of your compression when using slow mo. Now that it doesnt decrease the compresion anymore, it is burning the SSD really fast.

And all of that is true with Scarlet W too, compared to Scarlet Dragon.
 
If you can swing it weapon is a better investment
 
All the little ways that WEAPON is better than EPIC end up multiplying together, not merely adding up. I am very glad I upgraded my two DSMC cameras to DSMC2, and very glad I also purchased a WEAPON CF with 8K upgrade. WEAPON is a true generational shift from EPIC, despite having specs on paper that look so very close.

That said, the EPIC is perfectly capable of anchoring a feature production, not just in theory, but in fact(*). And for all of the reasons stated previously, you should be able to get EPIC cameras and parts for a very steep discount, which may help you if you are shooting low-budget features. But it's up to you to negotiate a fair price for EPIC. The WEAPON pricing is more than fair, if you have the budget to play.

(*) http://www.red.com/shot-on-red: Every feature shot before 2015 was not shot on WEAPON, but EPIC or SCARLET (or even RED ONE).
 
My $0.02.

Get the Weapon.

It obviously has a number of advantages but to me the big one is image quality. The Weapon has a better image period. It's especially better in low light in my experience. Once you've shot with the Weapon, it's really hard to go back.
 
andrew wehde said:
Hey Guys - i am looking for some insight in regards to an investment into a used Dragon or a new weapon. Both cameras would be kitted out nicely for a feature production. In terms of 3rd party Add ons, Can the Dragon still get relatively close to what the Weapon is offering with its new expandability? In terms of Image quality, are we seeing a big difference between the Weapon over the Dragon? The ability to import 3D luts into the weapon is great and is unfortent the dragon can't do this. Has anyone been successful with taking a 3d out and getting it into the dragon via converting through redcine?

thanks!

Contact@andrewwehde.com
Click to expand...

Weapon is much better for feature films. It's not a bout the sensor, they both perform well, but the workflow is totally different. Shooting ProRes or DNxHD at the same time as R3D has a huge impact on the post production, there's no reason not to use Weapon for feature films, it's better tailored for the job.
 
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