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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Flare

Ben Scott said:
Still noticing a lot of that 'plastic skin' problem with the model in the OP. :)
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Yeah. I bet if was shot with an Alexa it would look way less. . . . err. . . . plasticky.
 
Leif Thomas said:
Jarred Land said:
(...) or send it back at a later time to get upgraded. Obviously if you are far away from a RED repair center, the first option might be best.
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Hey Jarred,

which Red repair center will be capable of programming the Dragon? In your post it sounds like possibly every RRC can do the programming. I tried to verify this with Red Germany and it seems that sending the Dragon back to Irvine is the only option since neither Berlin nor Pinewood might have the tools needed.

Can you confirm where the OLPF programming can be done?
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Sorry for bumping my post:

Just wanted to check if anybody has a confirmation about where the OLPF programming can be done? Berlin / Pinewood / Irvine ?
 
Christopher Probst said:
Great points on both sides Eric and Jarred. I'm am often at the forefront of battling misconceptions about Epic cameras from someone's previous experience with a DP that didn't know the proper way to handle digital.
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I blame the renting buisness. Its easier to blame the camera for your mistakes. Epic is "appealing", so is camera tests prior to the actual shoot. My guess is that some times it is no testing before the actual project.
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
I blame the renting buisness. Its easier to blame the camera for your mistakes. Epic is "appealing", so is camera tests prior to the actual shoot. My guess is that some times it is no testing before the actual project.
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Not entirely. I am very specific in my approach in shooting with digital cameras... and that approach is specifc to EACH camera and its sensor, color science, resolution, workflow, ect... I see MANY cinematographers shooting in ways that I would categorize as an utter ERROR... And it's not for a stylistics choice, most times its out of a lack of understanding how the camera and sensor on that particular camera function. And function BEST. I can only shake my head and shoot the way I feel is best, based on testing, a solid understanding of what's going on under the hood and practical experience.

These sort of egregious errors span the entire level of production skills.. from newbies, to Academy Award winning cinematographers. I see their settings, filtrations, light balancing make a mental note and shrug it off... I don't mean this to sound pompous... I only what to point out that incorrect handling of Red cameras, and specifically the Red ONE has unfortunately tainted the RED name for some in the industry.
 
Christopher Probst said:
Not entirely. I am very specific in my approach in shooting with digital cameras... and that approach is specifc to EACH camera and its sensor, color science, resolution, workflow, ect... I see MANY cinematographers shooting in ways that I would categorize as an utter ERROR... And it's not for a stylistics choice, most times its out of a lack of understanding how the camera and sensor on that particular camera function. And function BEST. I can only shake my head and shoot the way I feel is best, based on testing, a solid understanding of what's going on under the hood and practical experience.

These sort of egregious errors span the entire level of production skills.. from newbies, to Academy Award winning cinematographers. I see their settings, filtrations, light balancing make a mental note and shrug it off... I don't mean this to sound pompous... I only what to point out that incorrect handling of Red cameras, and specifically the Red ONE has unfortunately tainted the RED name for some in the industry.
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You're a very smart man, and among the reasons I keep visiting Reduser.
 
One can dream Nick... but thanks for putting that out there into the karmic ether.
 
I agree 100%

I've been on many shows where the DP would have been better off shooting on a 5d. I also see a lot of DP's who treat the MX as if it were film. Clearly many of these guys have never even read the manual, or spend any time at all researching the camera, let alone testing.

I see it all the time.


Christopher Probst said:
Not entirely. I am very specific in my approach in shooting with digital cameras... and that approach is specifc to EACH camera and its sensor, color science, resolution, workflow, ect... I see MANY cinematographers shooting in ways that I would categorize as an utter ERROR... And it's not for a stylistics choice, most times its out of a lack of understanding how the camera and sensor on that particular camera function. And function BEST. I can only shake my head and shoot the way I feel is best, based on testing, a solid understanding of what's going on under the hood and practical experience.

These sort of egregious errors span the entire level of production skills.. from newbies, to Academy Award winning cinematographers. I see their settings, filtrations, light balancing make a mental note and shrug it off... I don't mean this to sound pompous... I only what to point out that incorrect handling of Red cameras, and specifically the Red ONE has unfortunately tainted the RED name for some in the industry.
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I believe it's this lack of understanding for how to get the most out of the RED that some lean towards the Alexa. Perhaps it's more forgiving? I don't know the answer but I remember someone referring to the Arri as the "happy camera" as it made everything look cheerful.
 
There is no doubt that arri took years of film color experience from their scanners and film to digital workflows and emulated those values to reproduce on a digital sensor.

In a sense they gave all of their customers with cameras who were used to a film to digital DI everything that's goes with that. So DPs say, "the skin looks right or the color looks right" because it is a "familiar image", not necessarily because it is technically better but for familiarity, aesthetic and nostalgic reasons.

So as ARRi transitioned to digital they created a camera that emulates the look of film stocks but it's coming off a digital sensor and that knowledge of film scanning film colors and DI isn't something you go out and buy, it's honed on years of image making and collaborating with Fuji and Kodak and knowledgable people across the industry. Even though Alexa was behind RED they did take a slow steady course and brought years of image science and color matrix to sensor development.

Then, they added and brought to their digital workflow a simpler post workflow than film. Let's use the term "digital and modern workflow" SHOOT>EDIT is what production accountants and producers wanted when they were making the move to digital and a few years of production with RED's post solutions (at the time) made people very ready for that solution even at what we would see as a hit to quality that makes no sense.

What at ends up pissing all of us off is that it's a quarter the resolution, a bit less flexible in color, but it plugs in perfectly to every aspect of production.

Rental house, check
producers, check
dp's, check
large film and tv post facilities, check

red stormed out of the gate and was not afraid to make a few public mistakes while constantly improving. It appeals to a more adventurous and rebel set of people. Anti establishment, etc. kinda like apple, but not as refined as apple is now, but more like apple with woz and jobs in the early days.

so in many ways Alexa is a PC (from those early days of computers) and RED is a Mac from those days and the customer base is kinda similar as well. Both attract creative people but for very different reasons.

So if anyone wants to know why I am harping on a post solution that needs to be way better than a PCI E card and free software, then it's the observation of this pocket history that partially describes how an industry wide trend can happen.

the "hard to post" moniker hangs over red (even though I do not agree).

Arri has been married to a generation of DPs and not a lot of them wanted to throw out the wife for the new hot chick. The wife ( arri) responded with a little more boring, a little more stable, a little less sexy, but right by your side attitude and that was well received.

Dragon not only has to be better, the whole top to bottom system has to equal because more goes into the decision than pure image quality. At least, that has been the case until now it seems.

Battistella
 
I have a secret. And this is a very, very important post.

Last week Jarred invited me to test out the new Epic Dragon OLPF plus the new camera/sensor calibration. For the last couple days I've been digging into it real hard.

I'll keep it brief because the images do the talking.





First up, FLARE.

As Jarred mentioned the "OG" Dragon OLPF exhibited reflected IR flare or magenta glow around bright sources. Much of what I've been doing is hard stress testing and comparisons to the New Dragon OLPF.

The Sun.



40 Watt Incandescent Bulb.



Single Source Flashlight.



A Match.




The magenta glow around intense sources is gone. This is great news.

You may notice that there are color and "tonal density" improvements. Dragon received a new calibration and update to the color science to play nice with this New OLPF.

So you might ask, is the IR Cut still as effective and what's the net results on the color utilizing hard Neutral Density Filtration?

Daylight - ND 2.7



IR Cut performance is still wonderful. You will not need additional IR Filtration with the New OLPF on Dragon. You just want regular NDs. I have tested 0.3-2.7 ND.

If you look extremely closely you will notice color has slightly improved overall. Additionally in shadows and highlights IR contamination has been eliminated with the New OLPF. Those blue shadows are extremely pure (check out the sky in the Sun Flare image too). White highlights are white. Dark shadow areas are clean. You may noticed that chroma is richer in the 2800K WB/ISO 2000 Match test image as well. Good stuff.

One more chart.

Artificial Daylight Source - No ND.



Color looks great.


The new calibration has also improved other areas.

Highlight Retention and Highlight Roll-Off.



That's approximately 1.3+ stops improvements in the highlights. Also to note, the New OLPF wrangles light fall-off and bloom a bit nicer. So you get richer shadow detail, where the previous OLPF with it's IR contamination flattened out those areas a bit. Subtle, but visibly noticeable in captured material.


I'm still conducting a few tests, but this is info you're looking for. I hear that the new OLPFs are coming soon and will be dropped into Dragons with this new calibration as well.

Hats off to the Red Team for developing and implementing this New OLPF tech. They listened and worked very quickly.

Now Dragon is even better.

Thanks go to Jarred for letting me break this thing in.
 
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NEW OLPF

NEW OLPF

Hi Phil,

That is great news.

Is the NEW OLPF user changeable or camera has to be sent to RED for the change?

Harcharan
 
Harcharan Singh said:
Hi Phil,

That is great news.

Is the NEW OLPF user changeable or camera has to be sent to RED for the change?

Harcharan
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The OLPF is user replaceable to some extent of care, but since there is calibration involved, as it has been said, the camera needs to go to RED.
 
WOW thats crazy outstanding.

F YAAAA
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
The OLPF is user replaceable to some extent of care, but since there is calibration involved, as it has been said, the camera needs to go to RED.
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Thanks Ketch

But I think RED should work out something for faraway REDUSERS for whom sending the camera back is a big pain....

Harcharan
 
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