Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DR ..a good discussion!!

Philip,

I believe I read somewhere, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, it being something to do with the relationship of the Red and Blue channel in relation to the Green channel in a " Bayer Pattern", especially when lifting the darker/shadow area of a scene.
 
Philip Lanyon said:
Why are the blacks purple on all of the red cameras? I’ve always felt this in the noise compared to other cameras but this highlights the differences in the blacks well. Noise can be pleasing and add texture and nostalgia but if it’s got a color to it, it becomes unnatural and I think the viewer senses that on some level.
Click to expand...

Not to sure, film never had "gray noise" Always tinted one way or the other blue, magenta or what not. But sure looks like as the image is balanced RED is wamer in the darks. Nothing that can not be blanced out though.

Then to me the whole discussion here is about DR. Then to comment and say that the images resqued look weird... Well, if the proper porton of the DR is used / the scene got proper light for the given snesor etc, then image should look and morally does look very much perfect. The interest here is to see where it brakes. When Rand and other gain up the levels and checks what´s possible to eak out, atleast to me, when doing so, I get a hit of what the given snesor is capable of.


And no some scenes can not be lit, large cities at night etc. All such demand a great DR and also a high senstivity. Every itteration of RED cameras have improved on both those points so to me it´s very much valid to film tests of people in dark rooms with one light bulb etc. Seing such image at 800ISO or even 50 ISO and then seeing the same picture at 6000 iso tells a lot. It simply shows the breaking points. Xyla sharts and other charts are great but does not say much what happens to different color chanels or what it actually means in reality, atleast not to me. Possibly some can fully judge a camera that way, but personaly I perefere to film my cats in different lit enviorments. I find that way more telling.
 
Bjorn,

Yeah, find out what a particular camera/sensor "can't do" first, then you will know better how to work with it in the realm of what it "can do".
 
rand thompson said:
Bjorn,

Yeah, find out what a particular camera/sensor "can't do" first, then you will know better how to work with it in the realm of what it "can do".
Click to expand...

Agree,
Its such big leaps between Red one, Red one Mx, Epic, Dragon, Helium Monstro and Gemini. Also the itterations of scarlet of both MX and Dragon. I grow my knowledge every time I use one of these cameras and especially when testing them in the same kind of light. Outside street light, inside my office. At home etc. etc. Those are my test charts, gray charts anc color charts like the spyder chart I shoot for the 3D guys to lock their colors against but honeslty to my eye they say pretty much nothing. When balancing on mid gray for the eye they all look the same. It´s only when pushing the contrast and gain / iso these cameras show their true colors.
 
fast and just for fun , wide open every time on all camera.
Sorry about the focus on Monstro :( , and I could only load files DPX from ALEXA mini .. I got stuck in raw with error message :( , then made the proress 4444 1080 and from there I send the dpx.
It is not a discussion on resolution but on color and noise response.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sy0ob7bbrgoyul/shot2.zip?dl=0
 
Luigi,


taking a break from planting some bushes for my mother, will get to these as soon as possible.
 
luigivaltulini said:
fast and just for fun , wide open every time on all camera.
Sorry about the focus on Monstro :( , and I could only load files DPX from ALEXA mini .. I got stuck in raw with error message :( , then made the proress 4444 1080 and from there I send the dpx.
It is not a discussion on resolution but on color and noise response.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sy0ob7bbrgoyul/shot2.zip?dl=0
Click to expand...

Looks like the Gemini has more DR compared to Monstro in these images... Woah.
 
Luigi, Monstro


Still trying to find the right approach to these extreme images. But here is my first approach.


41878162654_3b51df4c20_k.jpg
[/url]A001_C006_01137C.0000091F by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]


To this


41878159624_2a6b2ea3a4_k.jpg
[/url]A001_C006_01137C.0000091F by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]


And Finally to this



41878155264_99381500a0_k.jpg
[/url]fixed luigi bad night+ by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
Last edited:
David J. Buchanan said:
Luigi, was the Monstro and Gemini shot exactly the same because it genuinely looks like the Gemini has more than a stop of DR than Monstro?
Click to expand...

David Gemini is better in the highlights than Monstro of about 1 stop, but then Monstro has 1+ better stop in the blacks, I always said that Gemini looked like ALexa and so be. If you look at the first page of my post the test bulbs show little difference in the highlights compared to ALEXA.
But we are in Standard mode on Gemini. This can be noticed even more on Sony where in standard mode it is the same as ALexa but then Sony in standard mode in the shadows is too noisy. Substantially and I keep saying Monstro is the camera that has everything in one shot, as far as I'm concerned with the best, but then it's my feeling that can be different from yours and from other users, so I share and try to understand the everyone's opinion. If you want to have the same DR of ALexa it is enough that you shoot at ISO 1600 with Monstro, so the DR is exactly mapped equal, only you have more resolution and a bigger sensor another kind of approach.
Being hard to say which is the best of these 3 brands, frankly they are fantastic cameras and it certainly does not have to be this xyla test that makes one choose rather than another.
I like this thread all to discuss without arguing but to grow and share sensations and opinions, we hope it remains so ehehe;)
 
luigivaltulini said:
David Gemini is better in the highlights than Monstro of about 1 stop, but then Monstro has 1+ better stop in the blacks, I always said that Gemini looked like ALexa and so be. If you look at the first page of my post the test bulbs show little difference in the highlights compared to ALEXA.
But we are in Standard mode on Gemini. This can be noticed even more on Sony where in standard mode it is the same as ALexa but then Sony in standard mode in the shadows is too noisy. Substantially and I keep saying Monstro is the camera that has everything in one shot, as far as I'm concerned with the best, but then it's my feeling that can be different from yours and from other users, so I share and try to understand the everyone's opinion. If you want to have the same DR of ALexa it is enough that you shoot at ISO 1600 with Monstro, so the DR is exactly mapped equal, only you have more resolution and a bigger sensor another kind of approach.
Being hard to say which is the best of these 3 brands, frankly they are fantastic cameras and it certainly does not have to be this xyla test that makes one choose rather than another.
I like this thread all to discuss without arguing but to grow and share sensations and opinions, we hope it remains so ehehe;)
Click to expand...

100% agree, no argument from me. It just seems that the Gemini is also very good in the dark areas, and excels in highlight retention as well. I mostly notice this on the guys face in the very extreme light that's keying the side of his face. On his nose the Monstro breaks a part, but the Gemini keeps the gradition from light to dark.

Also there is more CA on the Monstro it seems... These were shot with the same lenses no?

Instead of the extremes what would both of these cameras look like at there best exposure on a well-lit scene.
 
David J. Buchanan said:
Luigi, I also can't tell because I'm not onset, but how do you feel about color accuracy on Gemini vs Monstro? Which one is closer to real world colors?
Click to expand...

The lenses were sigma, 50mm on SOny and Monstro , 24mm on gemini and ALexa.
Your question Monstro is more balanced on what I see.
These days, like Noah, I'm really wondering if the dual iso is really necessary. Perhaps this choice depends on the budget that one has. With 50k one buys Gemini accessories and an optical park and at the end has a great product. Monstro you have to spend a lot more. But even here it depends on the customers you have or where your project is oriented.
But you will see when you get Monstro and you will do your tests when you look at the pictures you will be very happy you will forget all these tests on chart xyla eheheh
 
luigivaltulini said:
The lenses were sigma, 50mm on SOny and Monstro , 24mm on gemini and ALexa.
Your question Monstro is more balanced on what I see.
These days, like Noah, I'm really wondering if the dual iso is really necessary. Perhaps this choice depends on the budget that one has. With 50k one buys Gemini accessories and an optical park and at the end has a great product. Monstro you have to spend a lot more. But even here it depends on the customers you have or where your project is oriented.
But you will see when you get Monstro and you will do your tests when you look at the pictures you will be very happy you will forget all these tests on chart xyla eheheh
Click to expand...

Cool thanks Luigi
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top