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DPX out from Premiere CS6

nima

nima

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Hello,
we need your opinion here before we embark on an endless/pointless journey.

I have a full lenght feature film shot with RED on a Premiere CS6 timeline. I used to work with Avid/FCP and this is my first Adobe workflow from beginning to end.
I have to pass the final cut to a color house in 4K DPX format. I usually go 2K, but in this case we need a full res export to work on VFX, Color and possible future 4K DCP archival.
It's an independent feature, and if I deliver a DPX file we will save some money...

My question is, does anyone have an idea of how long it will take to export a 120 min full 4K DPX file from a 3rd timeline in Premiere Pro CS6?

Here some useful details about the workstation:

MacPro 2x2.66Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon
64Gb Ram
R3D media is in an Internal Raid
Red Rocket - Nvidia Quadro 4000 (2Gb)
Software options for DPX export: Premiere CS6 0r After Effects CS6

Estimated Data Rates for the most commonly used Uncompressed HD formats
2K (DPX @ 24fps) needs about 275 Megabytes per second
4K (DPX @ 24fps) needs about 1250 Megabytes per second

I calculated that the final size will be around 5Tb. I wish I could go with Pro Res DPX to save space, but I'm using Adobe.
Just sharing my thoughts, I am not sure this is a task that can be easily achieved with a Mac Pro.

Thanks for your feedback
 
Last edited:
Why not duplicate the timeline cut it down to say to the first 5 minutes and run a test, I'm betting your 4k dpx export for the 120 minutes will still be a day or two.
 
Yes, we thought about that.
We are currently using the workstation to rush the editing, but we will run a test as soon as possible.
I asked this question simply because in this RED based forum it is commune to work with this kind of files.
 
there is so many parameters involved so the only guess valid is... a lot of time. As stated above make a short test to see what times you are getting. Then take that number and multiply it x5 to have room for errors and mishaps.
My guess is you need 2 days.

But ....

Personally I would recommend another route. I would much rather make an XML and then do a r3d trim export from RCXP and then go to a proper grading house that can actually grade straight from native r3d's with a few frames heads and tails if wanted. (Most grading places can work from r3d's, they just do not know about the greatness of "r3d trim") Going this way you actually:

1 Give the colorist a better source to work from.
2 Saves yourself and your colorist quite a bit of time.
3 You also save a lot of disc space.
4 you get all your used source clips nicely saved onto one small disc as native raw, (best possible and smallest backup for your used source).
5 The colorist conforms the r3d trimmed clips, makes his grade and output graded 12bit dpx files. (Which are more than enough for all your VFX work and well above todays standard of 10bit deliveries.) This export can be done as a timeline but I would actually prefer as individual clips with original in DPX header time codes, then you conform the DPX files into your preferred online / VFX station. Do your titles and VFX and export a final master. I would do that master as 10bit DPX or even proresHQ but if you want to be future proof and are picky about future proofing color things then stay 12bit DPX.

Then you do your DCP's from the above. Viola!

With the above workflow you got all stages nicely saved and can easily step back on a clip by clip basis if things goes wrong etc. And you use minimal disc space in comparison to if you export 16bit DPX files to the colorist straight from your timeline that just take up huge space, slows you down,and limits quality and creativity.

And it's all really simple the second time you do it... LOL.
 
Thanks Björn
most of the color houses we contacted refused to work with 3rd media.
I wouldn't be cool to mention their names, but they are all well known post houses in LA.
I agree with you, I always did my own with Assimilate Scratch directly on r3d media. This time although, due to festival deadlines, we had to ask for help elsewhere.
Thanks for the detailed workflow!
 
Björn Benckert said:
there is so many parameters involved so the only guess valid is... a lot of time. As stated above make a short test to see what times you are getting. Then take that number and multiply it x5 to have room for errors and mishaps.
My guess is you need 2 days.

But ....

Personally I would recommend another route. I would much rather make an XML and then do a r3d trim export from RCXP and then go to a proper grading house that can actually grade straight from native r3d's with a few frames heads and tails if wanted. (Most grading places can work from r3d's, they just do not know about the greatness of "r3d trim") Going this way you actually:

1 Give the colorist a better source to work from.
2 Saves yourself and your colorist quite a bit of time.
3 You also save a lot of disc space.
4 you get all your used source clips nicely saved onto one small disc as native raw, (best possible and smallest backup for your used source).
5 The colorist conforms the r3d trimmed clips, makes his grade and output graded 12bit dpx files. (Which are more than enough for all your VFX work and well above todays standard of 10bit deliveries.) This export can be done as a timeline but I would actually prefer as individual clips with original in DPX header time codes, then you conform the DPX files into your preferred online / VFX station. Do your titles and VFX and export a final master. I would do that master as 10bit DPX or even proresHQ but if you want to be future proof and are picky about future proofing color things then stay 12bit DPX.

Then you do your DCP's from the above. Viola!

With the above workflow you got all stages nicely saved and can easily step back on a clip by clip basis if things goes wrong etc. And you use minimal disc space in comparison to if you export 16bit DPX files to the colorist straight from your timeline that just take up huge space, slows you down,and limits quality and creativity.

And it's all really simple the second time you do it... LOL.
Click to expand...

Yep... What Björn said....

If you had to, and only had really had to.. I'd put a REDFLOGFILM lut on the images and also white balance all of them as best as you can.., (which you can do easirly in Cs6) so at least the colourist that gets your DPX 4k output has the best possible DPX's he can get.
Answer to your 4k export question... I just did a 1 minute 4k DPX export just then in my laptop... took 5m:20 seconds.. so times your movie by 5.2 and your away. :)
 
Well, a lot of different opinions. I have a few thoughts on the subject of pre-conform of the timeline for grading.
1. If the post house flatly refuses to work from R3D files, keep looking. There is no reason today not to work from R3D files, unless the post house trying to amortize the old equipment. Which brings me to the second point.
2. Working from R3D not always possible, practical or least expensive. Doing your own pre-conform can save you money. If my client brings me pre-conformed DPX or Prores timeline with EDL it may knock off as much as a day of work, which is not an insignificant amount. Often, if VFX is involved, it is not an easy proposition to work on the mixed material timeline. Conforming R3D along DPX, EXR or Prores can be difficult and requires careful preparation. Also, I find, that VFX personnel doesn't really concern themselves with proper gamma curve encoding or color space. Working with EXR pretty much precludes using RLF, unless dealing with knowledgeable VFX crew.
3. Sometimes white balancing R3D prior to transcoding and baking the look to DPX or Prores can be detrimental to the finished result. It is possible, that director may had another idea altogether.
The bottom line, it is alway a good idea to consult a professional colorist as early as possible in the process, as this may save a lot of unnecessary heartache and expense.
The final point I'd like to make is actually a question. If you're running a Scratch, why are you even bothering with Adobe? Scratch is one of the best systems for conforming by far. Many places keep Scratch specifically just for that purpose...
 
I was just trashing the 4k DPX files i did that render speed test on... FUCK ME ! .... just checked the file size !
1 minute of 4k DPX's was 52320meg !!! That means 1 hour is... like.. 3139200meg... is 313 terabytes ?? is that right? or is that 31TB...?
What ever....
oooooh R3D's I love you.
Remind me never to export DPX for grading... for anything in fact... ... ever !
 
We'll do some DPX tests later on this evening. I'll post some results tomorrow.
Meanwhile we are looking for another post prod facility. I agree with John, this is 2013, and the revolution started in 2008
 
jake blackstone said:
If you're running a Scratch, why are you even bothering with Adobe? Scratch is one of the best systems for conforming by far. Many places keep Scratch specifically just for that purpose...
Click to expand...

We have scratch5 on a Boxx workstation, but we are editing with Premiere Pro on a Apple hardware, with internal raid.
 
Mark Toia said:
I was just trashing the 4k DPX files i did that render speed test on... FUCK ME ! .... just checked the file size !
1 minute of 4k DPX's was 52320meg !!! That means 1 hour is... like.. 3139200meg... is 313 terabytes ?? is that right? or is that 31TB...?
Click to expand...

The answer is:
1 hour of 4k DPX 10 bit is....
....3TB (three terabytes)
 
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