Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

[George Butterfield]

I think Kyle deserves credit for manning up and speaking his mind. Isn't that kinda the RED credo anyway. Have some balls?!? I've been drinking the RED Koolaide just like everybody else, and for me, $6k was a lot, especially in this economy.

If you don't think RED exists in the same economy that you do then I think that you're drinking many brands of Koolaide

 

[Richard_JP]

I'm supporting Kyle's opinion.

It seems people are to afraid to post over here due to the blind "RED can do nothing wrong" attitude by a lot of users. RED's actions with regards to the Scarlet are not ethically correct. I do agree that it's a great camera, but it's not a Scarlet. It's the Scarlet S35 or Epic-S.

They have in fact dangled the carrot and hyped something for 3 years, that they have now u-turned on and stated is not professional.

I see many of the same people are agreeing with RED's decision, were not voicing their opinions about the lack of professionalism in the 2/3" 3k Scarlet before 2 days ago. I also don't see anyone asking, "but why is it now called a Scarlet?" Do you remember your support for when this camera was moved into the Epic line? You couldn't wait to tell RED how much of great decision it was, and that the price increase was totally justified.

And please don't forget people, this camera will only shoot 12fps at a professional resolution. All the other resolutions are not man enough... according to RED

Oh, and this is coming from someone who DOES have the money, but doesn't want to invest in this system. It's not the camera that I have been waiting for.

 

[Richard_JP]

...where is my 3K 120fps? (where's the evil grin smiley after all? )

I just read this. That is exactly what I wanted and exactly why I waited so long. I (like I'm sure many others here), don't need 4k finish, I need frame rate. I don't want S35, I want deep DOF.

So where is my 3k, 2/3", 120fps camera that I have been bigging up and trusting in for the past 3 years.

That's the message, we trusted that RED would deliver. For me and many other, they haven't. They have only delivered for the Scarlet S35 gang.

 

[George Butterfield]

Oh, and this is coming from someone who DOES have the money, but doesn't want to invest in this system. It's not the camera that I have been waiting for.

Richard, what are the specs of the Camera you have been waiting for and how much would it cost to produce? Please include all startup costs, R&D, personnel and Obamacare in your calculations.

 

[John Byrne]

George: $6k is a lot to me for a camera or a plane ticket or a cruise. If I put $6k in context of a camera x 3 or 4 + lenses for all of them, plus audio, lighting, cases, monitoring, computers, etc. I figure my 'economy' set-up is $50-60K for a basic one-man band. If I have to dish out $15K per camera, just as an example, that would put me in the $120+ budget range. Yes, if I need that kind of money, then it's out of my league. But I don't think so. I drink (and own) the best Koolaid and RED is a flavor I'm going to continue to drink, thanks.

You don't think RED exists in the same economy you do? I think you're drinking many brands of Koolaide

 

[Emanuel A.]

I just read this. That is exactly what I wanted and exactly why I waited so long. I (like I'm sure many others here), don't need 4k finish, I need frame rate. I don't want S35, I want deep DOF.

So where is my 3k, 2/3", 120fps camera that I have been bigging up and trusting in for the past 3 years.

That's the message, we trusted that RED would deliver. For me and many other, they haven't. They have only delivered for the Scarlet S35 gang.

Hey, "my" was in italic. And there was a conteXt to give a prelude to it, lost now with the quote... LOL

 

[Zeb B]

I support Kyle having a raw voice and to be respectfully heard here. (Kyle bro, lose the term "fraud" altogether in the OP - it does nothing for your post other than inflame.)

I also believe that RED/Jim exist in a extremely fast paced, brutally competitive world where they alone must make business decisions. Much has changed in the last 3 years . . . strike that . . . the last 3 months that force companies like RED to change course, sometimes abruptly.

You all have posted much on the inability of Kodak to read the tea leaves and change their business model. Jim has to make the right calls every day to survive even if some of those decisions upset loyalist or contradict previous announcements. Change or die

 

[Andrew Benz]

Maybe Scarlet Fixed was too powerful and they were afraid of cutting into Epic-S (now Scarlet-X) sales. I should have been more suspicious when Joseph bought an Epic.

Felix, I like you... I always thought you were a great guy. I wanted the interchangeable Scarlet as much or MORE than anyone else. I even purchased this S16 Zoom in GREAT anticipation of the interchangeable Scarlet.

But PLEASE do not drag my good friend Joseph into some kind of conspiracy... That IS NOT FAIR to him and ALL the hard work he has done to save up and purchase his own Epic M. Please think about that... He has been surrounded by Epic M's ALL year, OF COURSE he is going to bust ass to buy one. And NO DISCOUNTS TOO!

But other than that I understand your frustration, I SPENT $10K to have this lens and AKS already in anticipation for a camera that never made it light. I just don't think we should put RED down and other users as well, it's not fair.


And for John to call other users "loyal sheep".... Shame on you and all the others that denigrate the very hard working professionals that come here and share their hard fought knowledge.

 

[John Byrne]

You're so right, Richard. I can afford the $14K, but not sure I feel good about spending that just to make good on my own personal goal of owning a RED, especially when I don't have a crew to pull my focus and as you mentioned, that frame rate was so sexy.

I just read this. That is exactly what I wanted and exactly why I waited so long. I (like I'm sure many others here), don't need 4k finish, I need frame rate. I don't want S35, I want deep DOF.

So where is my 3k, 2/3", 120fps camera that I have been bigging up and trusting in for the past 3 years.

That's the message, we trusted that RED would deliver. For me and many other, they haven't. They have only delivered for the Scarlet S35 gang.

 

[Felix K.]

I also believe that RED/Jim exist in a extremely fast paced, brutally competitive world where they alone must make business decisions. Much has changed in the last 3 years . . . strike that . . . the last 3 months that force companies like RED to change course, sometimes abruptly.

And still no competition for Epic. Not that fast paced. Still, I'm not saying that Jim is a bad man. But I'd like to hear how he reacts to our reactions. How he justifies teasing people that intensly. It's not like he just left out a feature or it got 1000 bucks more expensive or that CF cards got replaced by more expensive SSDs. He binned the whole thing.

 

[Eric Lange]

Richard, what are the specs of the Camera you have been waiting for and how much would it cost to produce? Please include all startup costs, R&D, personnel and Obamacare in your calculations.

As someone that is on the up-hill bleeding edge of R&D that did make me laugh.
E

 

[Richard_JP]

Richard, what are the specs of the Camera you have been waiting for and how much would it cost to produce? Please include all startup costs, R&D, personnel and Obamacare in your calculations.

I don't really get your point. I'm not in the business of making cameras. I'm in the business of buy them and creating with them. And if Jim and RED says that they could do it, and within a certain price range. Who was I to disagree.

Fact is, this is looking like a great camera. It just doesn't correlate in any way to the original concept, in the way of resolution, frames rate, sensor size and price. I'm sure that this was a fact that they were aware of before the 3rd. And out of pure politeness, they should have stated it. Yes, I know what you're going to say, new policy of not saying anything yada yada. But I think that policy should have been adopted for future tech, not for something that people have been waiting for and planning their businesses around.

 

[Felix K.]

But PLEASE do not drag my good friend Joseph into some kind of conspiracy... That IS NOT FAIR to him and ALL the hard work he has done to save up and purchase his own Epic M. Please think about that... He has been surrounded by Epic M's ALL year, OF COURSE he is going to bust ass to buy one. And NO DISCOUNTS TOO!

You are probably right. Wasn't intended to be a harsh statement. But he was the most outspoken voice for the Fixed Scarlet and he hasn't said anything about it for quite some time. Ok, he is busy now and hardly posts at all. Which is a shame. I would like to hear what he thinks about the whole mess.

 

[Jason Rudd]

Nice lens Andrew! Good taste.

Two choices to use one's 16mm/S16mm glass now: on a GH2 in ETC mode, or duh, on your 16mm/S16mm camera where it balances properly.

Felix, I like you... I always thought you were a great guy. I wanted the interchangeable Scarlet as much or MORE than anyone else. I even purchased this S16 Zoom in GREAT anticipation of the interchangeable Scarlet.
[/IMG]

 

[George Butterfield]

I say we vote Kyle, "Off the Island!"

 

[Kyle Presley]

I support Kyle having a raw voice and to be respectfully heard here. (Kyle bro, lose the term "fraud" altogether in the OP - it does nothing for your post other than inflame.)

Thanks for your support, but please read that OP carefully. I AM NOT accusing RED of fraud. I used that as a disclaimer because a true bait and switch routine is a form of fraud. I do not believe it was fraud or bait and switch, only that the effect is the same and/or feels the same. "Carrot on a stick" is a better analogy.

 

[John Byrne]

Josh, I'll wager most here are small biz owners who have our asses on the line everyday. (At least I do.) I 'get' the realities that Jim must face (in my own small way) but I also don't piss off my clients (or potential clients) by hyping one thing, changing my mind, etc., and not take some responsibility for my actions. The fact that it cold have easily been revealed that the price point or specs where going in a different direction (radically for some) is just good business. Also: I'm happy to share in Jim's burdens as a shareholder. How 'bout it Jim? Wanna sell me some stock ;-)

I support Kyle having a raw voice and to be respectfully heard here. (Kyle bro, lose the term "fraud" altogether in the OP - it does nothing for your post other than inflame.)

I also believe that RED/Jim exist in a extremely fast paced, brutally competitive world where they alone must make business decisions. Much has changed in the last 3 years . . . strike that . . . the last 3 months that force companies like RED to change course, sometimes abruptly.

You all have posted much on the inability of Kodak to read the tea leaves and change their business model. Jim has to make the right calls every day to survive even if some of those decisions upset loyalist or contradict previous announcements. Change or die

 

[Kyle Presley]

I say we vote Kyle, "Off the Island!"

Don't make this personal George.

 

[Andrew Benz]

You are probably right. Wasn't intended to be a harsh statement. But he was the most outspoken voice for the Fixed Scarlet and he hasn't said anything about it for quite some time. Ok, he is busy now and hardly posts at all. Which is a shame. I would like to hear what he thinks about the whole mess.

No worries brother! He is VERY busy in Italy right now but he also really wanted the fixed Scarlet as well. Ketch and Joseph LOVED that camera! It is really sad for ALL of us that these cameras did not make the market...

Felix, you are invited to come to Chicago anytime I am here and shoot with me and my crew whenever you can... I would love to work with you!

And Emanuel.... Get your ass over here too man, I will send you a top secret link to fire you UP!

Kyle.... I understand you are angry man. I really get it but I also agree with Ketch... Fraud? No... They are JUST as upset as we are over this but I respect you and your ability to voice your being upset. But can you imagine how upset Jarred is... And Jim... And Brent... And Ted.... Well, get my point.

Please come visit Chicago too... I have 50 people a month hit me up just to shadow me... Usually I can't do that. I would make exceptions to you, Felix and of course my good friend E.! Let me put one of my RED's in your hands and have fun shooting!

 

[Richard_JP]

I say we vote Kyle, "Off the Island!"

I don't, I think that might just be you.

Yes, let's not make this personal. No one is attacking you George.