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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Does anyone know if the Epic will be able to be used as a studio camera and for ...

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Joe DiRosa

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Does anyone know if the Epic will be able to be used as a studio camera for live broadcasts?
 
Joe DiRosa said:
Does anyone know if the Epic will be able to be used as a studio camera for live broadcasts?
Click to expand...

We are moving forward with just such a plan. Not so much live broadcasting. More of a live in-house mix like Steve Gibby used Red One's during a Journey concert but on a more permanent studio-type configuration. Steve Gibby's wisdom and unique perspective have been an invaluable help in the months of researching for this (so thanks Steve if you're reading this!)

There are some workarounds and adaptions needed to make a film style setup also interface with traditional ENG controls (an operator on a tripod behind the camera running zoom and focus) Probably not suitable for a vast majority of uses (ie. you probably won't be seeing news stations buying up Epic's to replace their studio cameras) but for our needs it seems to fit the bill pretty well.

The Epic cameras are much more suitable to this type of thing with a 1080p SDI feed directly off the brain (as opposed to the Red One's 720p)
 
One major issue is the sensor size. It's a lot harder to pull focus on S35 vs. 2/3". And then there is the glass itself. PL mount glass isn't exactly ENG-like, as mentioned. So signal-wise it can work (genlocking is there, the HD-SDI feed is good, etc.) this is really overkill for an Epic. I wouldn't use an Epic to shoot the nightly news...
 
Albert,

Thanks for your reply. I am actually working on a space in NY and I am in a similar situation. A significant portion of the filming I am describing would be for filming concerts, fashion shows and other live events. I was wondering if the footage would be able to be mixed and broadcast live to networks. Or at least on a short delay.. I heard they were aiming to make the Epic's final version more fashioned to this type of use..
 
Seems like it wouldn't be its strong suit- kind of overkill for typical 1080p broadcasts but certainly could be done if desired.

Noah
 
Great feature is being able to archive for future use in 5K to SSD while at the same time feeding out a clean 1080p feed for broadcast and direct-to-edit workflow.

I plan on using it for live mobile streaming while at the same time archiving in 5K. What else can give you both?

-michael zaletel
 
i could see it as an AMAZING option for sports broadcasts. a kind of special camera for super slo mo replays. shooting at 250fps or something, through cinematic glass would be quite a way for a sports broadcaster to add something very special to their telecasts.
 
My thoughts were we would have the cameras for films anyway... It would be great to be able to use the same cameras.. In addition the footage from concerts, fashion shows etc.. could be broadcast in standard, HD, and 4k when broadcast is upgraded.. It could even be broadcast in 3D?? .. We would also have the 5k footage to work with for DVD's or other produced content distributed at a later date.

Some concerns I have is how to rig a multi camera system (up to 5) to the broadcast booth? I assume with that much data you would be looking at fiber?

Also any word on Epic having a compatibility with the new intel/mac thunderbolt data transfer protocol?
 
Joe DiRosa said:
Some concerns I have is how to rig a multi camera system (up to 5) to the broadcast booth? I assume with that much data you would be looking at fiber?
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HD-SDI to an Anycast/Tricaster/insert mixer of choice, just like any other 1080p HD signal, is the answer to that. You'll need to make sure you've got a mixer that can handle "real" 1080p, not just 1080PsF, but as long as it does, you're good to go.

Downsides to using Epics as opposed to more EFP friendly cameras: No ability to ISO/CCU the cameras (although this may be largely solved by Rob Lohman's new control software, once you can gang cameras); large, heavy, expensive, relatively slow and low-ratio zooms; relatively expensive kit needed to add EFP-style controls; no Tally-light feedback or built-in Talk-back systems.

Upsides to using Epics: 5K Master recorded on-board; High ISO (compensates at least somewhat for your glass speed); ability to shoot high-speed for replays etc; smaller and lighter (hence able to rig in more interesting places, potentially).

There are probably more points on both sides of the argument, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head...

HTH,
Dom.
 
Chris Parker said:
i could see it as an AMAZING option for sports broadcasts. a kind of special camera for super slo mo replays. shooting at 250fps or something, through cinematic glass would be quite a way for a sports broadcaster to add something very special to their telecasts.
Click to expand...

The problem there will be focus on telephoto shots, 2/3 chips/16mm film have a couple stops worth of extra depth of field to work with (for the same angle of view) - it will be interesting to see if NFL films shoots full sensor or cropped on their Epics.
 
Dominic,

Thanks a lot for the info. I would probably wait for the Epic X by which time I hope several of the issues you mentioned will hopefully be solved. We will be filming and doing live broadcasting so I am obviously weighing the benefits of being able to use the same cameras like equipment, rigging, software etc .. for both types of productions. Also the benefits of having an archived 5k format for DVD, rebroadcast and other uses. Also being able to use RED products has long term benefits for upgrading as well.

I would love to know if anyone has had success using the Epic M's for concert footage or other live events.. i would love to see the footage to see how it performed.

Thanks again Dominic!
 
No worries Joe, glad to help!

Certainly as you get down the road it will get easier to press the Epics into live service (as I mentioned, Rob Lohman's control software will be a real boon there), but there will always be downsides - that said, I imagine that those downsides may well be off-set by the extra earning potential if you're investing in them already, and you'll certainly be getting killer pictures out of them!

Good luck mate,
All the best...

Dom.
 
Joe,

We too are planning on using Epic for "live broadcasts" but not necessarily "studio". We have similar applications as mentioned by other users. I am in the process of compiling the team's notes from Ketch's Houston visit.

NewDef will use in conjunction with the Tricaster for streaming.

In regards to the overkill comment, we want to archive the 5K Epic footage. Both streaming services (Ustream and Livestream) have compression issues. The Tricaster will save the "higher" res files on its internal drives. The difference during the paint fight between what the R1's were showing on our video monitor and what got broadcast was miles apart.

Dom above makes some good points on pro's and con's. I think SSD management is an issue for on-location (as of today). Ketch didn't have a drive hooked up in Houston, so I can't speak to the workflow issues there. I do know that SSD won't be practical in a concert/fashion show/etc environment.

Net, net...we can't wait to get Epic's into our live workflows.
 
At its current level of development the Epic has some challenges for live work. That said, based on what it already does and what we know of the road map, I think it will be a wonderful live camera for both studio and location work in a way the RedOne with its "draft" level debayer never was.

On a related note, I would love to see a module that would pump out 4K in real time for I-mag and other large presentation venues. Perhaps a module that sent out the RAW data over fiber for fast decoding in an outboard "black box"... I realize this is not trivial, but I think there would be tons of cool applications.

Cheers - #19
 
Of course as a camera manufacturer we look for all the opportunities, and "studio" use is one of them Certainly some challenges there, as have been described above, but nothing on that list precludes the camera from being used in those kinds of applications. The one thing I would say is our cameras are not intended to shoot "the local news" i.e. forget ENG, but certainly embrace EFP -as Gibby has eloquently described several times.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
At its current level of development the Epic has some challenges for live work.
Click to expand...

Curious, can you elaborate any further? Hope to be receiving our M body soon to use in studio live work ... I noticed HDMI output is currently disabled but we'll be using the on-board HD-SDI tap. Curious what these "challenges" are that you describe so we know what to expect, if anything, different from what workarounds we are already prepared for.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
On a related note, I would love to see a module that would pump out 4K in real time for I-mag and other large presentation venues. Perhaps a module that sent out the RAW data over fiber for fast decoding in an outboard "black box"... I realize this is not trivial, but I think there would be tons of cool applications.
Click to expand...
Certainly would open up some cool possibilities - for one of the companies I sit on the board of, we'd LOVE to have a live 4k/5k output (to RGB, but as you say, that could be via some kind of Rocket-enabled off-board system if needs be) and have some very funky potential uses for it.

Problem is, I can see this being one of those things that has such a small potential userbase as to make it financially unviable for Red - in much the same way as the uncompressed 4K out for the R1, for instance.

Here's hoping I'm wrong though!...
 
Stuart English said:
Of course as a camera manufacturer we look for all the opportunities, and "studio" use is one of them Certainly some challenges there, as have been described above, but nothing on that list precludes the camera from being used in those kinds of applications. The one thing I would say is our cameras are not intended to shoot "the local news" i.e. forget ENG, but certainly embrace EFP -as Gibby has eloquently described several times.
Click to expand...

A Scarlet with a H.264 or ProRes recorder (or module) would be pretty good for that though.
 
Don't panic

Don't panic

Albert C Martin said:
Curious, can you elaborate any further? Hope to be receiving our M body soon to use in studio live work ... I noticed HDMI output is currently disabled but we'll be using the on-board HD-SDI tap. Curious what these "challenges" are that you describe so we know what to expect, if anything, different from what workarounds we are already prepared for.
Click to expand...

Based on my first couple weeks with it, if you are committed to using the Epic-M of today for live studio work you can absolutely do so. That said, some live studio applications assume the use of triax or other "standards" the new school Epic is not equipped for "out of the box". If all you are planning on is having the Epic feed you a nice image over HD-SDI, you should be just fine.

To be clear, problems are usually more about the age and limitations (the studio, not me darn it ;-) of the facility than any lack of capability of the Epic.

Cheers - #19
 
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