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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Does anyone have Scarlet 2k footage solutions?

I

Isaac Testerman

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This is one of my biggest issues with the my decision on wether or not to buy the Scarlet. I've heard some pretty negative things about the Scarlet's 2k footage. That it's pretty noisy, not as good in low light, and the thing that scares me the most is the crop factor. Do you really have a 3.24x crop factor anytime you shoot in 2k? I don't know how that's even workable. If my 50mm lens becomes a 162mm I would never be able to use 60fps. I don't like the idea of having to use a 18mm lens to achieve a 50mm look for more then one reason. How do you all work around this? And what are your thoughts on the image quality of 2k?

I ask this because with the kind of footage I shoot (music videos, commercials, web series) I need to overcrank fairly often and loosing half my lenses to do so is worrisome.

Thanks all!
 
Shoot 4K, output to 2K. Better quality, and crop factor is ~1.5 or 1.6

Or shoot 48fps 3K

Or rent an Epic if you need super-high frame rates at higher resolutions/lower crop factors.

Nothing to worry about... you're over-thinking this.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Get a Tokina 11-16. Or shoot on 16mm PL glass when you're at 2K.
Click to expand...

I've used the Tokina 11-16mm a few times and have never been impressed with the results. That's why I don't want to resort to using short glass to fix the problem. Besides it's practically impossible to get a shot that is shorter then 50mm when shooting 2k due to the crop factor, even when you're using a 16mm lens.
 
Isaac Testerman said:
I've used the Tokina 11-16mm a few times and have never been impressed with the results. That's why I don't want to resort to using short glass to fix the problem. Besides it's practically impossible to get a shot that is shorter then 50mm when shooting 2k due to the crop factor, even when you're using a 16mm lens.
Click to expand...


Well Isaac - It's a good thing you weren't around when we were shooting 16mm film… how did we ever do it? On the positive side I've had a couple of projects where over cranking was added to the shot list last minute; 2k cut just fine with the 4k footage no noise issues. AND I was able to do plenty wide with an RPP 18, plenty wide.

/rant/
As someone who has worked back and forth over the years between 16mm, S16, academy 35, and biTV 35 - I just don't understand the whole crop factor B.S. and comparing motion formats to stills… the last two 2nd AC's who mentioned 'crop factor' will never darken one of my sets ever again. /end rant/
 
If you're intercutting with 4K or 3K you'll want to use the sharpest lenses you can get for your 2K shots. I.e. not a DSLR zoom with a wide open iris, unless you're finishing in 720p or lower.

But like Martin pointed out, if you need overcranking at higher resolutions, you should really be looking at the Epic.
 
Jaakko Rinne said:
If you're intercutting with 4K or 3K you'll want to use the sharpest lenses you can get for your 2K shots. I.e. not a DSLR zoom with a wide open iris, unless you're finishing in 720p or lower.

But like Martin pointed out, if you need overcranking at higher resolutions, you should really be looking at the Epic.
Click to expand...

Yeah probably need the Epic. I've used some great short primes out there that give a very crisp picture, but as you said it can't be a cheap DSLR lens like the Tokina zoom
 
Recently shot a show for National Geographic with a combo of F3, Scarlet and 5D--using Scarlet a lot for interviews, beauty shots and anything that needed to be overcranked. The EP initially told us to not shoot larger than 2k (some combination of misunderstanding the technology, the capabilities of the editors and a miscommunication). We slapped a Canon 24mm prime on, kept the ISO locked at 320 and got great results. 24mm was typically wide enough and 320 did help with noise, though it made lighting interviews tricky sometimes. If I was doing post I might not have been as concerned with ISO, but since I was handing it off to someone I suspected might not have a ton of experience with RED post...

We got the go-ahead to shoot 4k about halfway through the production, which did make things more flexible.

IMG_0794.jpg
 
It helps to think of 2K at 60fps as a bonus to your 4K camera. It's a trade off and you can't expect to get super wide or super sharp results with it, but it's really nice to have. If your needs truly exceed those limitations, the Epic is what you should get.

Someone posted some soccer footage from a Scarlet at 120fps and it looked excellent on Vimeo, and that crop is even more extreme, so very good results are certainly possible.
 
You can certainly get great footage at 2k. When people don't, imo it's user error. Put it this way, you can still get better/sharper footage with Scarlet at 2k than you can with a 5D. There are tests around that show this.

Expose/light properly and noise is generally a non issue. Neat Video is also your friend if/when needed. For low light scarlet is a lot better than many people think, you just need to be willing to put a little effort in in post. It's RAW land.

48 @ 3k as earlier recommended is also a good solution to help with the FOV if that's a big issue. I know what you have said, but the Tokina at 11mm will give you close to a 24mm FOV if you really need to be very wide for your slow mo - and that's if we are imposing the reference of the "full frame" "crop factor" which is from photog world and this 5D viewing of the world tends to piss a lot of DP's off as this is film world. Not to mention a lens is a lens is a lens.

I really find it very strange that you feel so strongly against the Tokina I have to say? You are literally the first person I have ever come across to think so. Honestly you must have shot on a dud. It's a fantastic lens and a must have for a Scarlet I think. Bottom line, shoot wide or move back or yes "ultra wide slow mo" at 2k, without an ultra wide lens is off the table with Scarlet.... Though Dragon will be here in another year approx and we will get faster frame rates almost certainly. The camera you buy with RED gets better without having to fork for a whole new cam. Obsolescence obsolete is great and exciting to be a part of.

Otherwise if you can't afford an epic, sounds like an FS700 is the cam for you.

Best

Lliam
 
Andy Maser said:
Recently shot a show for National Geographic with a combo of F3, Scarlet and 5D--using Scarlet a lot for interviews, beauty shots and anything that needed to be overcranked. The EP initially told us to not shoot larger than 2k (some combination of misunderstanding the technology, the capabilities of the editors and a miscommunication). We slapped a Canon 24mm prime on, kept the ISO locked at 320 and got great results. 24mm was typically wide enough and 320 did help with noise, though it made lighting interviews tricky sometimes. If I was doing post I might not have been as concerned with ISO, but since I was handing it off to someone I suspected might not have a ton of experience with RED post...

We got the go-ahead to shoot 4k about halfway through the production, which did make things more flexible.

IMG_0794.jpg
Click to expand...

Hey Andy, your mic is attached to a hot shoe and the hot shoe is attached to what ?
And how do you attach it to the side of the camera ?
Thanks friend
 
2k

2k

I've done a ton of tests with three different EF Canon lenses I have and 3k resolution is tolerable and 2k is awful. I've tried back focusing and shooting at f5.6 and f8 in the sharper part of the glass and nothing helped. Someone said shoot 2k if you are finishing at 720p and that is sound advice. Because the Scarlet's sensor is a Bayer pattern, 2k is not true 2k. There are not 2048 tri-colored RGB pixels. 2k will result in the equivalent of a 720p image. This explains why my 2k footage looks like DSLR mpeg4 compressed fuzzy video at 1080p. If you are finishing at 1080p then 3k is the lowest resolution I would shoot because you will end up with the equivalent image quality of 1080p, comparable to another HD camera that actually has 1080 rgb pixels. The Scarlet is a 4k (not true 4k) camera and shooting at any another other resolution you will be sacrificing image quality in which case, why shoot on a Red camera?

Maybe some people that have $10k lenses can get better results at 2k but I can't afford it. I want to squeeze every bit of resolution out of the camera so I'll have to shoot at 4k. I'm thinking a healthy way to look at it, is that the Scarlet is a 4k camera, period. Shooting at lower resolutions would be a great option but not by cropping the sensor. Downscaled 4k images to 3k and 2k would've been SO much better if that's how the camera handled it.. But perhaps the camera doesn't have the horsepower for that? I don't know.
 
It's not that much better with an expensive lens, we've tested Leica Summicrons and Arri/Zeiss on it.

But a tad of sharpening in post is not a bad idea. And use low compression, you can easily afford that at 2K.

If you need high speed at HDTV rez and don't have the money for an Epic, why not get the Sony FS700 as a B-cam?
 
I think 2K 60p is very useful. I had a chance to help my buddy Jim out in testing the Phantom Miro, and we brought along an Epic and a Scarlet to capture some BTS. We mostly shot with epic to get higher frame rates, but as I had just received my Scarlet, I wanted to test out the 60p to see if it was useful.

Nevermind a wide lens, these are some quick shots from 2k 60p on a 70-200mm L lens in extreme low light https://vimeo.com/40881384

If you want to see how it cuts with epic 2:12 is epic and 2:33 is scarlet: https://vimeo.com/41550635. The rest of the slow mo in this video is from Epic, and will give you an idea of why the camera is more expensive. Useable 60p at 2k is cool, but shooting those 120-300fps shots on epic was a real treat. Of course none of that was as badass as the miro footage: https://vimeo.com/41402034

Use your tools creatively, and don't be scared of the bad results of other people.
 
Lliam Worthington said:
I really find it very strange that you feel so strongly against the Tokina I have to say? You are literally the first person I have ever come across to think so. Honestly you must have shot on a dud. It's a fantastic lens and a must have for a Scarlet I think. Bottom line, shoot wide or move back or yes "ultra wide slow mo" at 2k, without an ultra wide lens is off the table with Scarlet.... Though Dragon will be here in another year approx and we will get faster frame rates almost certainly. The camera you buy with RED gets better without having to fork for a whole new cam. Obsolescence obsolete is great and exciting to be a part of.

Otherwise if you can't afford an epic, sounds like an FS700 is the cam for you.

Best

Lliam
Click to expand...
I'm wondering if the Tokina I used was a dud too. It was not a sharp glass, especially wide open or anywhere near 11mm. But everyone else seems to love it. I'll have to try a different one to see how it holds up.

I've got an Epic on the way, and was thinking of the Scarlet for smaller projects. But The FS700 does sound like a great camera. I've got a buddy who swears by it and I'll be using it later this month, so I'll get a good idea of it's capabilities soon.
 
Zack McTee said:
I think 2K 60p is very useful. I had a chance to help my buddy Jim out in testing the Phantom Miro, and we brought along an Epic and a Scarlet to capture some BTS. We mostly shot with epic to get higher frame rates, but as I had just received my Scarlet, I wanted to test out the 60p to see if it was useful.

Nevermind a wide lens, these are some quick shots from 2k 60p on a 70-200mm L lens in extreme low light https://vimeo.com/40881384

If you want to see how it cuts with epic 2:12 is epic and 2:33 is scarlet: https://vimeo.com/41550635. The rest of the slow mo in this video is from Epic, and will give you an idea of why the camera is more expensive. Useable 60p at 2k is cool, but shooting those 120-300fps shots on epic was a real treat. Of course none of that was as badass as the miro footage: https://vimeo.com/41402034

Use your tools creatively, and don't be scared of the bad results of other people.
Click to expand...

Great stuff thanks!
 
Is 2k on the Scarlet any different then 2k on the RED One(other then frame rate options)? If not I dont see how it's not usable for a lot of applications. At FSU the film school students for the most part only shot 2k on their RED's. Sure 4k is obviously nicer and has its advantages, but the 2k was still a hell of a lot better then any thing most people can use. They were projecting the films also and still looked pretty good. Just seems weird to "complain"
 
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