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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Do YOU want 6k??

Do YOU want 6k??

  • Total voters
    325
Brandon, I would be willing to go to Eastern Europe and work with ya sometime, I love the area, and the cold...

Brandon J.F. said:
Yes, the same one in talks with 2 companies about securing the exclusive online distribution rights to a behind the scenes series based the footage you mention. A deal that could potentially pay for the entire film. Two companies that approached me. Yes, that guy.

I always said these little behind the scenes videos are a work in progress. They aren't perfect, but I prefer spending my time doing something productive and positive rather than just sitting on a forum talking shit all day like so many newcomers here like you.
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Brandon J.F. said:
Yes, the same one in talks with 2 companies about securing the exclusive online distribution rights to a behind the scenes series based the footage you mention. A deal that could potentially pay for the entire film. Two companies that approached me. Yes, that guy.

I always said these little behind the scenes videos are a work in progress. They aren't perfect, but I prefer spending my time doing something productive and positive rather than just sitting on a forum talking shit all day like so many newcomers here like you.
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Ha, you're the one who started talking shit about Vino and you're also the guy from the other Dragon thread who wanted to get into a pissing contest over what gear I own as if it were relevant to the discussion.

Please stay on topic and don't resort to personal attacks because you don't like someone's opinion unless you can handle a taste of your own medicine.
 
I think 5k is good because it gives you a 1k border for stabilization and reframing (which you shouldn't need, but sometimes it saves your ass) and because 4k supersampled from 5k looks pimp. Plus, until we get to 8k, we're going to be downscaling to 4k at best (if not 1080p) and the crop factors are getting a little unruly.

I was under the impression that 8k is the next step after 4k, so 6k just seems like more processing and storage until 8k cameras come around. Personally, assuming that it had to be instead of 6k, I would have preferred 5k sensor (for the 1k border) with even better lower light (via bigger pixels) and/or better dynamic range and/or faster frame rates. Unfortunately, I don't think it works that way. I do think the 6k at ~1.2x/5k at ~1.45x crop (or whatever the crop factors actually are) is not a good compromise... Does that mean 4k on dragon is going to be a 2x crop? Seems to be diverging quite a bit from film industry s35 standards (for lensing and frame characteristics).
 
I think we have all heard about enough out of Ben...
 
Brandon J.F. said:
Here is some behind the scenes for something he shot/directed.

gallery-img1.jpg


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http://www.c22b.com/index-4.html

Vino, is this video online? I'm sure many here would love to take a look at your work.
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I just soiled my pants after reading and seeing this post! That is gold!!!!!!
 
Gunleik Groven said:
But Rob, why don't you just hand them some prores 4444 redlogfilm files?
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Because Raw is very useful and I'm not a fan of Pores' ability to hold up to many generations.

Also because after shooting, i'm not excited at the prospect of having to do a conversion at my expense.

Anyway, all this to say 5K si not "too much" - to me it's the sweet spot - just before the lens, the filter and other factors become the limiting factor most fo the time, and beyond which, anyway, there starts to be diminishing returns that are not worth, for my work, the post-prod choke, as at soem point human eyes are the limiting factor. We don't watch video at 100% zoom looking for soft edges on lines.
 
Michael Dalton said:
Like many, I don't have a need for it now, but I like the fact that they are pushing the bar higher. IMAX looks awesome, and the closer we get, then better off we are.

But also like others here, I would complain about the post work flow solution, and this is where I think red is dropping the ball. Most people complaining about Red target the workflow. RED Rocket is the achilles heal because they have closed down the post work flow. IT's controlling the debayering the hurts us most going into a 6k world. If RED was to open up their technology to licence it for a reasonable amounts to someone say Black Magic, AJA, and Matorx, then they can create a variety of options for post work flows so RED works properly within an edit suite, and editing programs. This grading, render to a process or DNX flavour is very backwards, then have the pain in the ass relinks to get everything to work properly, I can see why people go to a Alexia proress work flow.
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True, true. That would solve a lot of problems. An affordable external red rocket card like Mark Toia suggested would be a killer. This is where red really should put a lot of resources in i think. It sucks that i can't watch any footage on my laptop which is 2 years old without rendering. A thunderbolt plugin red rocket little box would be nice :) Clients want to view takes back on there laptops, take stuff home immediately after a shoot, keep it simple. Transcoding in RCX is a breeze for me, but not transcoding at all is even easier :) and sometimes when i mention RCX, clients get scared, because there is a software program involved they don't know, and thus find RED=a lot of effort... So 6K not going to help the above problems :S
 
Brandon and Adam well well....I made that student film before I graduated from film school. It was shot on super 16mm film and at the time I couldn't afford to have a best light transfer and I never shot on 16mm before. You should see some of my shorts and I raised the bar at school back in 2007. You have no idea of the work that I have completed and will do with my scarlet. Yes now that I have a editing system and the footage I can reinvent that short film and it would blow your minds young jedi. No shame here...the truth of the matter is I haven't seen anyone shoot better than that short. I have film and digital cameras from over the years and I could still out shoot you. Scarlet X vs Scarlet X or Scarlet vs Epic its not about the cost its what you can do with it. I plan on making another kick az film but I need all they can push out to the scarlet to amaze people but the 1K 120fps doesn't have the beauty of the epic , Red one or the sony FS 700 for that matter and thats bad. Give me some presets like the Sony FS 100 and slowmotion 2K or 3K.
Maybe it's me but I can't understand how sony can push the FS700 to 240fps and the Scarlet x can do nothing. Come on REd heat up the scarlet 4K and set them on fire with the 6K and I won't utter another word.
You could loan me an Epic for my project if you want and use your people to run it...Just the dream of a small timer not a novice. Oh well I still own a Scarlet so lets do a over haul of the firmware and close the mouths of the people that want more from our investments.
 
Brandon...com on Hybrid of Vigor??? I saw your footage and you are a real NOVICE!! Post your work before you crack on someone else. Rob is a novice also.
 
I will re-edit that short for you guys. That brandon posted if you want.
 
Vino, it's ok to be a novice, big deal... Steven Spielberg was once a novice. I'm a novice, there's lots of us that are pretty much just beginning here. Settle down fella. One of the unwritten etiquette rules here is that you don't bash someones work, or their spelling, lol. People often break the rule as we all have seen, but it doesn't gain them any friends. Try not to snap back too hard, remember the RED community is a relatively small community, and there is a good chance that a few years down the road, your going to need that person...
 
Well I don't really mean to bash others and I forgot that alot of people don't have a RED. The spelling... well I type so fast with these two fingers of mine that I hit the wrong keys a lot..daaaam I just noticed spell check on the quick reply. I have seen some good footage from the Scarlet X today and I do remember someone shooting a guy on a roof top, to tell the truth I haven't shot anything due to firmware updates and more equipment for my Scarlet. We all want to see some amazing changes that will send us out doing projects but we are waiting for a final update with no issues and things that we need to complete a project.
After seeing that 1K slow motion test from the Epic I can't accept the 1K slow motion from the Scarlet because the consumer cameras are cleaner. 2k 120fps or higher would be better, I don't need the HD settings 3k hd etc. But hey what can you say? They are working on something but I want to use my camera today not get updates and be told that it's only for testing.
 
Antony Newman said:
When the Dragon sensor is released, 18 Mpix photographs with 15+ stops of DR may be the tipping point for people to consider using the Red as a stills camera, and Red could be motivated to add a photo mode & time lapse features in the camera. Published photographs may bring yet more artists into the Red community, and more reason for Red to prioritise a low power mode. I vote for 6k based on this.

The c300 is said to improve the colour accuracy by treating a 'visible' pixel as 2xG +1B +1R. If the Dragon sensor has less noise per pixel than the Mysterium, and images from both were converted to 4k - would I be correct in believing that Dragon would produce images with better colour accuracy (at 4k).

Another thought. The BM sensor has a refrigeration unit on it to reduce the noise. If there is no space internally in the Red brain, could an external device be used to supercool the Dragon? (Ice Dragon?). Could using a temperature controlled loop remove the Black calibration step, or allow a higher Sensor frame rate? Could the Ice Dragon see in the dark?

Another thought - again from the c300. The c300 samples the sensor immediately after blanking. This value is subtracted at the end of the frame (eg 1/48th of sec) later - removing the fixed pattern noise ... and giving the film like grain at 20,000 ISO. I don't know how the Red read cycle works in this respect (ie don't know if this is already being done), what about a modified HDRx mode ... that reads the sensor for 1/16,000th of a second then again at 1/48th of a second. Could this mode be used - like the canon - to remove FPN on the Red, and allow noise to be removed in low light images?

AJ
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Anthony,
You can always record a couple of seconds with the lens cap on, average those frames and subtract them from your footage.
 
Vino, don't forget you are a novice around here sir, calm down and sense the tone of the forum, learn from Ben's experience.
I really don't like to see people bashing other people's work, especially when the first has nothing to show.
Look for Matt Ryan, Phil Holland and lots of others generous and talented people.
And...well, tired of talking about this.
I wish you the best of luck.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
Because Raw is very useful and I'm not a fan of Pores' ability to hold up to many generations.

Also because after shooting, i'm not excited at the prospect of having to do a conversion at my expense.

Anyway, all this to say 5K si not "too much" - to me it's the sweet spot - just before the lens, the filter and other factors become the limiting factor most fo the time, and beyond which, anyway, there starts to be diminishing returns that are not worth, for my work, the post-prod choke, as at soem point human eyes are the limiting factor. We don't watch video at 100% zoom looking for soft edges on lines.
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Understood. And agreed. But if you're worried about your clients technical capacity (machine and competence wise) Batching out with RLF will solve all the issues you're outlining.

I'd of course have prefered the option to record directly like that for some uses... :)
 
The only people who need more resolution are those who can't meet customer demands without it. For everyone else it's just a desire. Personally, I'd rather get more out of existing technology than build a bigger pipeline, and that includes not only improvements to 5K but also lessening the quality level disparity between lower resolution / high frame rates and 5K.
 
Vino Harris said:
Brandon...com on Hybrid of Vigor??? I saw your footage and you are a real NOVICE!! Post your work before you crack on someone else. Rob is a novice also.
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I never said anything about your work. I actually very much respect the fact that you are struggling to make films independently. Many talk about doing that "one day" you are instead are going out there and actually doing it.

Maybe you think I am a novice - that's your subjective right even though 99% of my work I never post online with my name - no need for my competitors to have an easy handle on my client list -so I'm not sure what you're referring to for that judgement. Either way my clients seem to disagree.
 
Vino, I see from that BTS still you were shooting with an NPR.
I had 4 of those critters, 2 16mm & 2 super 16 mods, & 16 mags.
I really don't miss shooting film, although I do miss the smell of fresh film when you open the can, but then I am a little kinky.
 
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