DNxHD from RedCine into Avid MC6 - PC

[roryhinds]

I'm having a real problem getting Avid to import the DNxHD files I transcoded via RedCineXPro.
I'm on a PC using the latest RedCineXPro and Avid MC 6.

When I import the DNxHD files they just show up as "media offline"

I'm new to Avid but it seems something is wrong like Avid can't work with RCXPro files or something.

Anyone else have this issue?
Any tips?

 

[Nick Morrison]

Refresh your media database. In the "file" menu.

What you are experiencing could be because of a number of things, but THIS is the most common solution to this problem. Good luck.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Also, don't bother IMPORTING your DNXHD files. Takes way too long.

Just AMA the quicktimes in, and then TRANSCODE them to your whatever media rate you desire. It's about 5x faster. Trust me.

Importing is just SAFER, and should be used if you are changing frame rates (ie loading in 23.98 files into a 59.94 project).

 

[MichaelP]

If you're making DNxHD via REDCINE, it is native MXF wrapped DNx so it is not an import. Drop the .mxf files into the Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1 (numbered folder, could be 2, 3, 4, etc.). Open project and bin and drag and drop or import the AAF files created at the same time during the transcode. It automatically links.

Michae

 

[Tom.Wong]

if it doesn't automatically link when you drop the AAF into the bins, you can select them, right click go to relink media and manually select the drive the avid media files is on.

 

[Nick Morrison]

If you're making DNxHD via REDCINE, it is native MXF wrapped DNx so it is not an import. Drop the .mxf files into the Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1 (numbered folder, could be 2, 3, 4, etc.). Open project and bin and drag and drop or import the AAF files created at the same time during the transcode. It automatically links.

Michae

True. I thought he meant DNXHD codec QUICKTIMES. I guess he means MXF media.

 

[MichaelP]

Don't confuse the codec with the wrapper. Avid internal managed wrapper is MXF and the codec is DNxHD for picture (although it can manage ProRes internally as well when wrapped as MXF) REDCINE can export QuickTime wrapped DNxHD or MXF wrapped DNxHD. The one you drop directly into the Avid MediaFiles folder is MXF wrapped DNxHD (extension .mxf). You don't want to be AMA linking to the QuickTimes proxies of the R3D made by the camera as you lose all control of the color parameters.

From REDCINE, create native MXF wrapped DNxHD and do the steps I referenced in my previous posting. Also see the AVID+RED Webinar that shows the different ways you can work with R3D files at www.avid.com/red


Michael

 

[Bruce Allen]

This klnda brings up an interesting point... people don't seem to read manuals or guides much these days. Rory is a super-smart guy and really, Avid should make it easier for him to import stuff without having to go to help.

Part of the reason that Avid is having trouble is that people have no idea what their software can do... because it's not immediately obvious when using the software. The functionality is there... it just needs to be made more user-friendly to users who don't read the manual.

I think it would help a lot if someone from Avid sits down and just watches non-expert Avid users try to use the software. Then go through and fix all of the sticking points.

For, example, in this case... it wouldn't be much trouble for Avid to adjust the Import function so that:

IF file type is MXF:
1. copy MXF file into Avid MediaFiles > 1 on the specified import drive
2. add to current bin

ELSE do normal import

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[MichaelP]

For, example, in this case... it wouldn't be much trouble for Avid to adjust the Import function so that:

IF file type is MXF:
1. copy MXF file into Avid MediaFiles > 1 on the specified import drive
2. add to current bin

ELSE do normal import

I agee, and that has been a feature request for a long time, I tried for a couple years to get that very functionality into Media Composer. Along with right click clips in bin would automatically allow you to move/copy media files to a target destination. It's a matter of priority and where Product Managers and Designers want to take the product. We'll see what 6.5 has to offer.

Michael

 

[Tom.Wong]

on the reverse side though, the stringent folder structure and how you get the media into composer is one of the main reasons it's one of the most rock solid NLE's out there. the database system is what keeps composer constantly on top of where all your files are. AMA breaks down in that aspect for very long for projects, you stick with the mxf database file structure system and you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to keep all your files online even when jumping from system to system, or in a massive networked edit environment. there's never really a reconnect dance you have to do like in FCP. which is why a lot of big hollywood movies stick with avid. with 10's of terabytes of footage to sort through, a offline/online workflow, and huge conforms, the way it's structured is the way to go.

i don't really see too many ways around the existing system to keep that kind of functionality.

 

[MichaelP]

That is the difference between "Avid Managed" and "User Assisted" management that separates AMA from the Avid MediaFiles folder. Once media is Avid managed, it is a huge load off the editor's minds. I have edited projects with multiple editors in remote areas and once media was replicated (syncing MediaFile fodlers), all it takes is sending a bin back and forth. From an NLE to MediaFile management point of view, it is hard to beat. But it doesn't mean there can't be improvements such as what is suggested above - the inability to import its own native format without knowing what to do with it is pretty basic - and additional project structure within the MediaFile folder is another long standing request. And while long time users of Media Composer roll with the punch as they know the advantages of managed media, it is not that obvious to new users, which is what Bruce was referring to, and I agree.

Michael

 

[roryhinds]

If you're making DNxHD via REDCINE, it is native MXF wrapped DNx so it is not an import. Drop the .mxf files into the Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1 (numbered folder, could be 2, 3, 4, etc.). Open project and bin and drag and drop or import the AAF files created at the same time during the transcode. It automatically links.

Michae

I think what I'm confused about (coming from FCP) is where the hell does Avid store its files? How do I setup where the Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1 folder is kept as I take it if I'm coping the .mxf files created by RCXP then I would like that to be on my RAID for fast IO.

From what I can tell Avid only has this MediaFiles folder on the boot drive but that can't be right.

I think the ultimate problem I have with Avid is how secretive it is about where the files are compared to how open FCP was/is. With FCP you just drag and drop the files into the bin and away you go, it will edit those files where every they might be stored so you can manually managed you media and know where things are and if they are on the RAID or not.

When I create an Avid project where does it ask me where to create the Avid MediaFiles folder? and how do i know if its 1/2/3... etc

This must be obvious for experienced Avid users so I apologise for my lack of experience with Avid.

 

[Eric J Robbins]

I think what I'm confused about (coming from FCP) is where the hell does Avid store its files? How do I setup where the Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1 folder is kept as I take it if I'm coping the .mxf files created by RCXP then I would like that to be on my RAID for fast IO.

From what I can tell Avid only has this MediaFiles folder on the boot drive but that can't be right.

I think the ultimate problem I have with Avid is how secretive it is about where the files are compared to how open FCP was/is. With FCP you just drag and drop the files into the bin and away you go, it will edit those files where every they might be stored so you can manually managed you media and know where things are and if they are on the RAID or not.

When I create an Avid project where does it ask me where to create the Avid MediaFiles folder? and how do i know if its 1/2/3... etc

This must be obvious for experienced Avid users so I apologise for my lack of experience with Avid.

The Avid MediaFiles folder is in the root of whatever drive it is housed on. This setting can be changed in the Media Creation settings to be on any drive. However, you cannot change the location of this directory, only the drive on which it is housed.

Typically, Avid wants this file on a drive separate from the boot drive. Once it is created, working with it is actually really easy. You can even create your own manually; as long as the structure (Avid MediaFiles: MXF: 1 is correct, Avid will index it and make a .mdb file.

 

[roryhinds]

Hi Eric

Thanks for your help here. I still don't get it though. Changing the drive with the Avid MediaFiles would be changing the directory so I don't quite follow you there.

I have checked the Media Creation and it points to my Raid but I can't see the Avid MediaFiles on that drive so I think it hasn't created it. I tried copying my files to the Avid Mediafiles folder which I found i my /documents/Avid Media Composer/ which is on my boot drive but still I can't see my media in Avid MC as it says Offline Media.

I'm sure this will be easy once I figure out this basic step but man its so frustrating now.

 

[MichaelP]

The folder named "Avid MediaFiles" has to be at the root level of whatever drive is attached to the system. Be it the bootup drive a USB/FireWire or a RAID. This folder is automatically created when media is captured or imported and that drive is selected as the target. There is nothing really secretive about it. The application, projects and bins live on the OS drive (be default) and media is in the Avid MediaFiles folder. If you want to see an example of that, watch the video on www.avid.com/red for the different ways to deal with R3D files - either via AMA (which is like FCP where you manage where the files are all the time) or as DNxHD in the Avid MediaFiles folder.

Michael

 

[Eric J Robbins]

Sorry Rory, I wasn't clear: you can change the drive, but Avid will always try to place the Avid MediaFiles in the root. You can't nest it or bury it in a different folder, otherwise Avid freaks out.

One mistake I see often is to make sure that every creation setting is routed correctly. Sometimes users will only tell their titles or effects renders to go to a specific drive, rather than their imports (hence the "Apply to All" button) so they may be residing somewhere else. Sorry if that's a redundant suggestion, but it happens and never hurts to check.

You said you tried copying your files to the MediaFiles folder. Are these MXF files? Are they in the Avid MediaFiles:MXF:1 folder? Do you see the .pmr or .mdb files in that folder? You mentioned the Avid saying the files are offline; in the bin, what drive does it say they are on? You can actually get the path of files by right clicking on them and choosing "Reveal Location", I believe. I'm not near my Avid now, so that might be named differently.

 

[Eric J Robbins]

Michael made a good point: you can link .r3d files to AMA and then just transcode them in Avid. I wouldn't recommend running off AMA, since you will get slow down after some time (this is also dependent on the size of the project and the system running Avid).

 

[MichaelP]

The video will show you 3 different workflow methods if you can take the hour to watch it:

1. AMA - native editing and/ore transcode
2. REDCINE X creating native MXF wrapped DNxHD
3. Selects creation from editing sequence for offline/online via REDCINE X

For methods 1 and 2 there is also a segment on AutoSync within Media Composer which still offers a better workflow for audio post in my opinion than syncing in REDCINE X (depending on audio post workflow). But the syncing is just as fast and it retains all the BWF metadata including track info and the ability to sync with mix track only, etc. Re-syncing is also easier should timecodes not match up frame accurately. I also like to make my projects 35mm so I can sync down to the quarter frame (and that offset metadata is maintained).

I also prefer to make dailies in REDCINE X as it keeps up with the latest changes to the ever-beta camera color management and has control over all the color parameters not to mention DRX.

Michael

 

[roryhinds]

Hi Michael

I still don't get why the Avid MediaFiles folder is not located on my footage drive (raid).
- Do I need to create this folder myself?
- If I do have to create it myself what number do I give the MXF folder?

I re-watched the video but its brushed over very quickly where the MediaFiles folder is and on the video is just works but on my system it just doesn't work.

Where can I find out more info on creating this Avid MediaFiles folder and how I get Avid to recognise this folder once I have created it.

This is really frustrating to say the least

 

[Nick Morrison]

Hi Michael

I still don't get why the Avid MediaFiles folder is not located on my footage drive (raid).
- Do I need to create this folder myself?
- If I do have to create it myself what number do I give the MXF folder?

I re-watched the video but its brushed over very quickly where the MediaFiles folder is and on the video is just works but on my system it just doesn't work.

Where can I find out more info on creating this Avid MediaFiles folder and how I get Avid to recognise this folder once I have created it.

This is really frustrating to say the least

Rory, I would do the following:

1) Start over. Erase all "Avid MediaFiles" folders you or Avid may have created. Do a search.
2) Create an "Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1" tier of THREE folders on your RAID/FOOTAGE drive. It must be setup exactly like this or Avid wont read the media.
3) Dump your RCX mfx files into the "1" folder. Nowhere else.

Make sure AVID continues to WRITE to this folder. Got to "SETTINGS/MEDIA CREATION". And in "import" select your RAID/FOOTAGE drive. Select "Apply All" so this drive is the default for all media functions.

See if this works.

One last thing. You have exported MXF files right? (As opposed to DNXHD quicktimes....)