Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DIT wrapping early

Andrae Palmer

Andrae Palmer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
2,480
Reaction score
1
Points
38
Age
52
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Website
www.facetmedia.com
At what percentage would you recommend for camera operators to switch their media? Especially for 256GB SSD. I would like to do a verified copy in less than 15 minutes after the last card is handed to me. My workflow is MacBook Pro 17" i7 Quad 2.5GHz, 7200 RPM internal drive, Tempo SATA Pro ExpressCard, all external drives eSATA... running R3D Data Manager as my primary verification/checksum app.
 
Most people won't go over 70% on a 256 in my experience, so that the DIT doesn't get backlogged and for security. Steadicam, Crane, and heli we will run them full. Most productions seem to be using 128 GB and going up to 100 GB.

*AC not a DIT (but sometimes downloading is tacked onto my job)
 
64 gb cards, 50-60% is good time to swap

128 gb 70%

256 gb 85%


depends on the shooting of course, interviews tend to like to keep rolling and filling up mags. or some shoots are so fast paced they don't even wanna waste time formatting so you gotta just grab it when there's 15 seconds of breathing room. although I usually bring the tower to set now, offloads are several times faster that way. but if you really don't wan to be backlogged, and needing some playback isn't an issue. I'd just swap as soon as your each card is verified/backed up. and I usually start my first card after an hour or so of shooting.
 
I am really more interested in this from the point of view of copying, checksum/QC verifying the copy in less than 30 minutes after wrapping. I figure just copying a full 256GB card would take 56 minutes over eSATA (on my system)... so surely handing a full 256GB card after wrapping to a DIT is a no go. So what percentages would on a 128 or 256GB card would facilitate early wrapping/immediate dailies shipping for the DIT? In my experience the "LAST" 128GB card should not go beyond 50%... so 25% for a 256GB card.
 
I swap at 50% always. If you have enough cards, I say swap as much as possible. It's quick and painless. I directed/shot a project a week ago and we finished 2 hours early both days because of this workflow (and many other wonderful things)...
 
That seems to be more relevant for traditional mechanical/electromagnetic drives, not solid state media.


Scott Crawley said:
Most drive manufacturers recommend 10-20% in what I've read.
Click to expand...
 
The transfer rate is constant between the various sized RED SSD media.
Do several tests and see how much average data you can copy in 15 minutes on your particular setup.
Once you have that number then you can always figure out when to swap out the SSD.
 
Justin Kirchhoff said:
I swap at 50% always. If you have enough cards, I say swap as much as possible. It's quick and painless. I directed/shot a project a week ago and we finished 2 hours early both days because of this workflow (and many other wonderful things)...
Click to expand...

I agree... most productions have at least four cards so they really should swap out those cards on a regular basis. No need trying to fill up the card and the DIT has nothing to work with in the meantime. I currently have four 128GB cards and plan on purchasing two 256GB cards for help/underwater work... but on most sets I plan to use the 128GB cards.
 
Set up your system and do a few tests to figure out how many GB you can download and checksum in 15min.

With your laptop set-up that will be difference than someone else desktop set-up.

Also the destination drives will play a huge role in how much. I had a client provide me with 1Tb Glyph esata drives a couple weeks ago. Problem was they were a few years old and could barely maintain 40MB/s via esata. Yesterday I had a client bring me drives that were able to do 180MB/s. A huge difference in how fast I can download.

I prefer to download a lot, so I like 64GB cards and avoid 256GB unless there is a reason. I am really starting to not like Epic because every idiot wants to shoot 5K FF 5:1 with HDRx even if is a sit down interview with a 5D as second camera and destined for the web. 4KHD 8:1 is overkill for 90% of the projects out there. I digress.

Test your system and get your answer.


Dusty
 
It really is system pipeline dependent and also client dependent. For example, I tend to push for quick mag changes whenever possible to keep data flowing throughout the day, minimizing problems, and eventually being able to wrap out same time as rest of camera crew. Every once and a while, there's a project who's requirements don't afford me that luxury. For example, long interview takes where it has been determined to not cut camera because they don't want to risk missing anything, including the in-between moments. In those situations, your hands are tied a bit as you could be stuck with a lot of media at the end of the day, through no fault of your own. Even with multiple systems going, this can lead to extended days. But that's usually not a problem because we've already determined this in preproduction meetings. The one takeaway from jobs like this is to make sure that every component of your systems is optimized so that you can then move that large amount of data, including verifications through as fast as possible. If you have a weak data pipeline and you get slammed with multiple cameras worth of data at the very end of the day, you will be in rough shape if your system is slow.

In general though, those types of jobs are the exception, not the rule. Most of the time you are dealing with fairly short takes and the opportunity to swap out mags fairly often. That's what's great about the SSDs. They are quick to swap out. Virtually no down time. So no one complains about it. Just make sure you communicate your strategy at the beginning of the shoot so that the ACs and operators know what to expect.
 
Dustin Cross said:
Set up your system and do a few tests to figure out how many GB you can download and checksum in 15min.

With your laptop set-up that will be difference than someone else desktop set-up.

Also the destination drives will play a huge role in how much. I had a client provide me with 1Tb Glyph esata drives a couple weeks ago. Problem was they were a few years old and could barely maintain 40MB/s via esata. Yesterday I had a client bring me drives that were able to do 180MB/s. A huge difference in how fast I can download.

I prefer to download a lot, so I like 64GB cards and avoid 256GB unless there is a reason. I am really starting to not like Epic because every idiot wants to shoot 5K FF 5:1 with HDRx even if is a sit down interview with a 5D as second camera and destined for the web. 4KHD 8:1 is overkill for 90% of the projects out there. I digress.

Test your system and get your answer.


Dusty
Click to expand...

Dustion,

With your desktop/RAID setup how much can you download and checksum in say 15 or 30 minutes?
 
I swap out after the first couple of takes early in the day so the DIT can x-fer and then client / agency can look at a rough grade in REDcine-x. Makes them happy to see what colour changes (etc) can be done.

Towards the end of the day, I swap out frequently - I don't want to be waiting around to get my card(s) back from the DIT, and I hate the dance that the producer / production manager does as they wait for the last transfer… It can be brutal to watch and puts a lot of pressure on everyone.
 
Glen Powell said:
I swap out after the first couple of takes early in the day so the DIT can x-fer and then client / agency can look at a rough grade in REDcine-x. Makes them happy to see what colour changes (etc) can be done.

Towards the end of the day, I swap out frequently - I don't want to be waiting around to get my card(s) back from the DIT, and I hate the dance that the producer / production manager does as they wait for the last transfer… It can be brutal to watch and puts a lot of pressure on everyone.
Click to expand...

I hear you... the last shoot I was on... I was holding up production/camera crew from going home on time... after wrap I was there for an additional hour. Figure during the last two hours of the shoot telling them to swap out 256GB cards at 10%. Only way for me to copy, verify and quality check the footage in less than 30 minutes after wrap.
 
Tehben Dean said:
Yup, I'm pretty sure the reason for this is because spinning drives are slower towards the center of the disk.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't they be faster toward the center... Laws do physics and all? Maybe I don't understand it very well. Anyway, the 20% is generally targeted at system drives too, to accommodate write/rewrite overhead, for shuffling bits et al

I haven't read any lit on solid states... Do they not recommend any overhead at all?
 
Dustin Cross said:
Set up your system and do a few tests to figure out how many GB you can download and checksum in 15min.

With your laptop set-up that will be difference than someone else desktop set-up.

Also the destination drives will play a huge role in how much. I had a client provide me with 1Tb Glyph esata drives a couple weeks ago. Problem was they were a few years old and could barely maintain 40MB/s via esata. Yesterday I had a client bring me drives that were able to do 180MB/s. A huge difference in how fast I can download.

I prefer to download a lot, so I like 64GB cards and avoid 256GB unless there is a reason. I am really starting to not like Epic because every idiot wants to shoot 5K FF 5:1 with HDRx even if is a sit down interview with a 5D as second camera and destined for the web. 4KHD 8:1 is overkill for 90% of the projects out there. I digress.

Test your system and get your answer.


Dusty
Click to expand...

every idiot?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top