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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dissapointment?...

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Medavoym

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If RED EPIC's new sensor is better than the current one (most probably), and if RED ONE cannot be upgraded with the new sensor down the line then I (and all the RED ONE owners) will be extremely dissapointed.

I still don't know what to expect so I'm on hold. But remember! We were explicitly PROMISED upgradability if new technological advances are being made in the future. We were explicitly told that we wouldn't have to buy a new body if a new, better sensor comes along.

MAKING OBSOLENCE OBSOLETE

Remember?

That's what we were promised. That's why I decided to go for the RED and put down a deposit, therefore helping out RED along its course (in my small way). I don't want to pay a large amount of money for EPIC to get the already promised upgradability for RED ONE. I already got that when I decided to trust Jim and go with their new phylosophy.

This is not criticism (since I don't know EPIC's price yet), just a reminder to everyone of what we were promised to hop aboard! EPIC sounds amazing, but I certainly hope RED ONE is not merely a beta product, only good for testing so a $40,000 improved camera comes along with a totally different market target (if at that price). I would honestly feel misled if EPIC's price is too high compared to RED.

Hopefully all my fears will be proved wrong.
 
It's too early to tell what's going to happen... I would imagine there's going to be some sort of upgrade path for the RED One, it only makes sense. Unless their intent is to phase out the RED One over time in favor of EPIC, which means that EPIC will be close to the RED One in price and no one will care. Either way the full value trade-in for the RED One body is insane. That's unprecedented.

Jim (and the entire RED team) will take care of us. Of that, I have no doubts.
 
Jeff is right. Jim has a proven history of taking care of people and doing people right, so don't fret. For him I don't think this is about money at all, at least not at this point.
 
I certainly hope not 40K!!

It is specifically because I trust Jim and his phylosophy that I put down the deposit. I guess I am just voicing my concerns... and I do feel that a reminder of that initial phylosophy couldn't hurt anybody. At 40K the price to upgrade that initial phylosophy would suddenly become misleading marketing.
 
there just aren't enough details. we can't deal with the 4k we have. so 5k is out of bounds for now. only thing that just peak my interest is the new sensor. hopefully alot more DR and it has 100fps at full frame resolution. course those features wouldn't be worth an extra 22k to me.

I think they kinda burned themselves a little on naming the price point early for the RED ONE and they've been figuring out ways to raise it ever since. with out taking the pr flack of just actually raising the price. making accessories and suddenly have to pay 120 for a hardrive cable , raising prices on accessories , dropping parts of accessories.

I know technology doesn't stand still but christ they've only been shipping in volume a few months. couldn't we have had a two year breather to get the most we can out of the RED ONE first. will Epics development take precedence over RED ONE. I"m not saying any of this will happen. but it has a lot of people worried and a little disenchanted.
 
I'm pretty sure you won't see 5000 people plunking down 40k for EPIC, rental houses maybe. I should shut up. this is just all very worrying
 
I think its too early to have a clear view.
But Epic is a new camera in the area of 30K.
And Scarlet one for 10%
I also do not see how to upgrate because at the end you need new sensor DSP electronic and drives.
BUT there will be a full trade in of Redone to Eipc. I think thats mostly fair.
I think you could not expect to get the new highend model for free.
And maybe Red will have some additional benefits for the people who had alredy the Red before the NAB
 
I think what we expected was that the RED ONE was going to be upgradable for a fee like we were told. just didn't think the fee was going to involve a whole new camera and 22k extra and junking some of your accessories
 
Over the past year, tons of posters on this forum have been saying "Hey id gladly pay double if you'd include this and that". RED has listened. RED is delivering. There have also been forum posters saying "hey id pay half as i only need this or that" RED has also listened.

I honestly think that EPIC has less to do with the sensor than it does with new FPGA's, processors etc, the engineroom required to handle the larger data rates provided by the reconfigured sensor. YES red one is upgradable, but how upgradable are we talking? The camera does produces 4K images, and in 100 years time just like its 35mm forefathers will continue to produce industry standard images. I wouldnt call that obsolete. Advancements in optics and lens design will determine more about your final image moreso than advancements in sensor technology at this stage (okay, higher DR aside).

RED has rendered obscolence obsolete by creating a product that would NOT require upgrading in the first place.. Because it fulfills the needs that any filmmaker may want today or 10-20 years from now already, today, in your hands if you own one. But if trading in your old camera for the new one isnt rendering obscolescence obsolete, i dont know what is.

As Jeff said, it certainly sounds like RED is taking care of owners. At an unprecedented level. At this point, it sounds like their #1 goal is cutting the legs off the competition. And you AINT seen nothing yet..
 
I think unless epic has something insane like 15+ stops of DR then its not really worth the extra money to get .5k extra resolution that can't be resolved anyway because of the limits on bayer pattern resolution. although 100fps at full frame is nice again I'd probably rent epic to do that if I really needed it
 
Ace,

I think they have done amazing work and they continue to. we just all thought RED ONE was the all singing all dancing totally modular upgradeable high end production tool. I figured if we ever got a new sensor it would cost us 8 to 10k. course I pulled that out of the air. but you wouldn't expect the upgrade to cost 22k more than the actual original camera cost
 
I hear what you're saying Acehole but I think "tons of posters" is very exaggerated. Maybe a few very vocal ones? Because if this 40k figure is confirmed, it will mean probably 80% (guessing here) or so of current Red One owners won't be able to upgrade. If that is the case I really hope Red will not let us down. Hopefully the long promised build 16 will be available soon and put at least some of our fears to rest. I'm still very confident in Red!
 
We all knew that the upgrades would cost something, so it looks like in this case its $22K. So be it.

I dont mind paying and extra $22K If the epic has some major improvements. In fact I see this as positive thing for the industry. Hopefully for owners of epic you wont see rentals of $300 per day, dragging the rest of the industry down in the process.
 
black highlight issue aside - the red one is a fantastic camera now, and will still be creating amazing pictures into the future.

i can't see them abandoning development on the red one unless the epic is at a very similar price-point...so i'm sure the two cameras will co-exist. looking at the specs, the Red one still does everything i'd need - especially if its sensor can be upgraded to the new mysterium X used in the Scarlet and Epic.
 
while I love the march of technology I despise elitism. RED ONE was about putting creative people with the best tools possible that they could just never have afforded previously. its kind of slipped somewhat with todays announcement. yes RED ONE is still RED ONE but a year from now maybe nobody will want to RENT your RED ONE from you, they'll want an EPIC
 
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