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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Digital Media Options for Dummies

P

Paul Wizikowski

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Could someone more in tune with the RED jargon and the current state of development please explain in simple terms the pros and cons of each Digital Media Option. I would really like to better understand what has already been announced before I get to NAB and get overwhelmed with the expected volume of updates, releases, general information, and other announcements.

Much appreciated,
Paul
 
Agreed,

I wish I knew which one, if only one, would be the (relatively) best option.
Any help appreciated. I know this IT storage based media will change even this year...
 
Do a search lots of discussion on this already - even for the complete novice.

In a nutshell:

RED DRIVE -- storage magazine constructed of 2x160GB 2.5" Hard Drives.

RED RAM -- same as RED DRIVE, but uses 2.5" FLASH based drives (solid state disk / SSD).

Both mount on your camera system somewhere and attach via an eSATA cable (non-standard connector with power).

Then there are the FLASH Module options

These attach to a separate eSATA interface right on the side of the camera. Only one of these modules can be mounted at any given time (ASSumption) and we don't know yet how many pieces of media each will hold or use simultaneously.

CF FLASH Module -- Uses standard CF (Compact Flash) media cards.

ExpressCard Module -- Uses ExpressCard format storage devices. The ExpressCard is the new form of PC card slot that replaces PCMCIA on the new Macbook Pro and many new PC notebook systems.

1.8" SATA -- Uses 1.8" FLASH drives (SSD) like the above mentioned RED RAM. Just smaller form factor. 1.8" hard drives on the market now are used in devices like iPods and HDD camcorders or other media players. 32GB 1.8" SSDs are available now and 64GB models have been announced and should ship soon. Prices on these will continue to plummet over the next few years as capacities expand very quickly. ...Same for the other two FLASH options and also the RED RAM mentioned above.

Based on what we know now, I would pick the 1.8" SATA FLASH module as the best choice over the next year or so. However, certain workflow considerations may be better suited for ExpressCard FLASH. The CF FLASH module would be a good option if you were getting your camera right now as it's the only FLASH format of the three that is commonly available in 8 and 16 GB capacities right now.
 
Thanks for the response, it helps. That said I basically understand what the different options are, I don't have a good understanding of why one would be more appropriate than another. Other than allowing flexibility for each user to cusomize their own workflow, are any of these options technically more superior in performance, speed, or security than the others? Can I shoot in all of the cameras formats with all of these Media Options?

There is quite a lot of ASSuming going on throughout this forum and so its often difficult, especially for an IT novice, to weed through it all.

Thanks,
Paul
 
Paul Wizikowski said:
Other than allowing flexibility for each user to cusomize their own workflow, are any of these options technically more superior in performance, speed, or security than the others? Can I shoot in all of the cameras formats with all of these Media Options?
Click to expand...

The speed ordering, from fastest to slowest, will probably be:

  1. RED RAM
  2. 1.8" SATA
  3. ExpressCard
  4. Compact Flash

What implications this will have for shooting formats is not very well known at this point. (Outside of Red, of course.)
 
Yep.. The 1.8" SATA format will probably grow in capacity much faster than the ExpressCard and CF formats too just because manufacturers can physically pack more FLASH chips inside of one. RED RAM will ultimately be the biggest fastest option once 2.5" SSDs take hold of the notebook computer market and replace hard drives. We should know more at NAB, but the FLASH market is super hot right now and evolving fast. What happens at NAB is definitely going to be a far cry from what will be available later this year.
 
Paul Wizikowski said:
So, does it seem that the 2.5" SATA that is used in the RED ONE is a proprietary hardware to RED. Or could one potentially use third party 2.5" SATA drives similiar to whats listed in the link below?
Click to expand...

The 2.5" hard drives inside the RED DRIVE as well as the 2.5" SSDs inside the RED RAM are most likely off the shelf SATA interface components. Theoretically, you could crack open one of those units and use different ones in place of the ones included... For example, down the road when larger capacities come available.

But I don't know if that would really be that workable of a solution. Considering RED DRIVE is a custom enclosure with a RAID subsystem all in a compact form. I'm assuming it has extra features for withstanding shock and vibration, etc... I don't think the price is out of line. There's also the FLASH module options as well. You buy the module and you can supply your own FLASH media. I'm predicting that I'll buy the 1.8" SATA FLASH option and will be supplying my own 1.8" SSDs for use with it -- like the newly announced 64GB Samsung units.
 
That samsung page gives some interesting clues about the differences in durability between flash and hard drive solutions. At the bottom it reads that the flash modules can operate in 20G's of vibration, where an HD can only operate in 0.67G's. Hmmm, exited to hear from the first RED skydiving testers...
 
REDRaid: 2.5" Drives. Hours of 2k or 4k. Warning: strong shocks may result in lost frames.
REDFlash: Minutes of 2k or 4k. Results in the camera being entirely solid state except for the lens. Shock resilliant.
REDCompact Flash: Currently too slow for 4k. Very small capacity. Cheap and dropping in price/increasing in capacity and speed. A good alternative in the future.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
REDRaid: 2.5" Drives. Hours of 2k or 4k. Warning: strong shocks may result in lost frames.
REDFlash: Minutes of 2k or 4k. Results in the camera being entirely solid state except for the lens. Shock resilliant.
REDCompact Flash: Currently too slow for 4k. Very small capacity. Cheap and dropping in price/increasing in capacity and speed. A good alternative in the future.
Click to expand...

Maaany thanks.
This is really clear.
I've used to shoot Dvcprohd using Focus Enhancements Firestore.
A lot of problem with the devices (really a crap software) but never lost a single frame for a shock (tripod/dolly/steadicam 100%).

I will definitely go for the drives.
 
bottom line is, you can not make an intelligent decision on what will suit you best until NAB.
Aloha
-A
 
im.thatoneguy said:
REDRaid: 2.5" Drives. Hours of 2k or 4k. Warning: strong shocks may result in lost frames.
REDFlash: Minutes of 2k or 4k. Results in the camera being entirely solid state except for the lens. Shock resilliant.
REDCompact Flash: Currently too slow for 4k. Very small capacity. Cheap and dropping in price/increasing in capacity and speed. A good alternative in the future.
Click to expand...

That's some helpful information. Thanks.
Any better estimates for how many hours/minutes the drives will hold? or are we still waiting on details to know specifics? any reasonable estimation would be helpful to me.
 
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