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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Describe how Dragon changed your shooting days/postproduction

Joel Arvidsson

Joel Arvidsson

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I know we all here strives after getting the best quality capture but in this thread Im more interested in hearing about your personal experience working with the Dragon.

What did Dragon change for the better? Describe in what way Dragon made your shooting days easier then the epic?
To give an example, perhaps the larger dynamic range made it easier to shoot interviews with bright windows in the background, or before I used hdrx all the time but now I dont need to...Now i spend much less time color correcting...I really enjoying the extra resolution and use it for reframing alot and stabilizing...
The low light is so much better that I literary forgot where I store my lights. ;)

Work with me here im trying to find a proper excuse to get on the dragon train, but be faithful=)
 
I am much more confident shooting under low/mixed light sources. I used 1280ISO just recently for a short and the 'texture' looked so nice that I left it in. The colour science also has something really cool to it, especially when you're shooting in 6K and keeping a RAW workflow for all that subtle detail right to the end.
 
I appreciate shooting 6k even delivery is most of the time HD for me.
Shooting interviews of two people with a single camera, framing for both subjects in the shot, and be able to just crop in cine-x to each of there faces.
Making it look like a three camera set up is just one of many tricks other cameras can't do.


… on a side note I use HDR a lot on my Dragon for time laps work and am really glad that its still around.
 
Shooting Days:

It's given me a bit more confidence in backlit scenarios. The DR is incredible. Instead of shooting something with the intention of having it silhouetted, It allows for retained information in the foreground to give detail to the image in the foreground.

The downside. I shoot in a fast pace environment and a lot of times in questionable light. Waiting 30 seconds for the camera to start up is terrible and can sometimes kill a shot. Also having to wait a few minutes for the sensor to be warm to prevent a magenta look on the image in the dark is a huge pain.

So overall it's allowed me to have a lot more confidence in tough lighting situations. But it's also made getting shots a bit tougher with the start up times and sensor needing to warm up.

Post Production really hasn't been affected.
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
I know we all here strives after getting the best quality capture but in this thread Im more interested in hearing about your personal experience working with the Dragon.

What did Dragon change for the better? Describe in what way Dragon made your shooting days easier then the epic?
To give an example, perhaps the larger dynamic range made it easier to shoot interviews with bright windows in the background, or before I used hdrx all the time but now I dont need to...Now i spend much less time color correcting...I really enjoying the extra resolution and use it for reframing alot and stabilizing...
The low light is so much better that I literary forgot where I store my lights. ;)

Work with me here im trying to find a proper excuse to get on the dragon train, but be faithful=)
Click to expand...

Joel, no need to find excuses. Dragon is so much better in nearly every aspect. In addition the upgrade price just went down until NAB which might help compensate the strong Dollar and give you extra benefit once you decide to step up to the next body W. Downside is obvious, you create more data so storage needs will increase. If you´re on an older system RAW editing at 6K slows down a bit, too. You will need to get the sensor to specified temp which can be problematic, e.g. with limited batteries on a stabilizer.
Other than that I enjoy the new sensor, especially the highlight roll of the STH OLPF and the extra Res for reframe and for the first time pulling usable stills.

Cheers, Ulf
 
The greatest thing about the Dragon is that I no longer have to use FILM. ;)
 
Is it more important to varm up the dragon sensor than the epic? I always warm up the epic but sometimes i have to start before getting it up to temp. But I cant say that it have been any real punishments for those occasions in terms of image quality. If its more important on dragon why not include a button that warm up the camera quickly to the choosen temp? Also if shooting in colder enviroment its trickier to get up to temp.
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
Is it more important to varm up the dragon sensor than the epic? I always warm up the epic but sometimes i have to start before getting it up to temp. But I cant say that it have been any real punishments for those occasions in terms of image quality. If its more important on dragon why not include a button that warm up the camera quickly to the choosen temp? Also if shooting in colder enviroment its trickier to get up to temp.
Click to expand...

I definitely notice less noise when it's warmed up to ideal blackshade temperatures, but really it doesn't take too long for it to get up to temp. I just use the GIO scope, looking at the blacks (stop 1) to become evenly purple, then I know I'm ready to shoot. Keeping it in a camera bag would help it get up to temp faster too. If it's really cold, you can always re-blackshade to the colder temps.
 
I've written about my experiences with Dragon a whole heck of a lot, but real quick and simplified in terms of what I really feel is improved:

- Color - Dragon's color is flat out better than Mysterium-X. Skin Tones are what they "should" be and this was huge, huge gripe on MX.
- Dynamic Range - Pretty darn noticeable and useful.
- Smooth Highlight Roll-Off - Dragon rolls off to clip way more organically than Mysterium-X. Less of a digital fingerprint.
- No More DRX - DRX is a thing of the past and isn't needed on Dragon footage whatsoever.
- IR Cut/Block - No more IRND or Hot Mirror/Combo filters. This has been huge in practice and my footage is the most consistent it's been ever.
- Resolution - I shoot mostly at 6K, 5.5K, and 5K for a UHD 4K or 4K DCI finish.
- Resolution for VFX - I shoot a heck of a lot of VFX work, having the extra pixels is really nice sometimes.
- Format Size - I love Dragon 6K because it's closer to VistaVision. One day it sounds like Weapon is getting there.
- 5K = S35 - Having 5K be right and proper for a traditional 4K downsample/finish existing within the S35 has been huge really.
- Black Shade Banks - Having 4 Black Shade presets stored in camera is a big time saver.

You'll notice the first 5 things I listed are more or less color and image quality related. I can't stress enough that the overall image quality is higher when shot properly. This last calender year I've shot the best looking footage I've ever shot and Dragon's color has played a big role in that.

Those were the quick ones I could think of off the top of my head.
 
+ Colors and flexibility.

- More important to accomodate the blackshading rules and calibration, which by some is found a major PITA.

Over all: Haven't looked back and haven't missed the MX once.
 
+1 on what everybody else said and for me whatever I'm filming looks a lot better, right out of the camera (Thanks to Graeme). My lenses look more beautiful thanks to the change in crop factor and you can't beat the extra resolution for reframe, stabilization or just crazy beauty when it's finished in 2k or 4k.
 
I never used MX. I came to RED at Scarlet Dragon, from a BMCC.
Before I invested in RED, I always wanted a Scarlet/Epic MX and I loved the way MX looked and moved, compared to BMCC and DSLRs.

Now, when I look back at the MX footage on vimeo/youtube that I was jealous of, I think "it's good but it's not THAT good." The skin tones tend to look orange or pink and the colors don't really pop. Just the other day, I was trying to figure out how I've been able to spot MX vs Dragon footage on RED videos in the vimeo user group. There's just something about the color that's different.

BTW, I don't want to nitpick, but it's confusing to onlookers and especially noobs to say Epic vs Dragon (I've even seen test videos w/ that title), instead of MX vs Dragon.
 
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Jeffrey Loewe said:
Shooting Days:

It's given me a bit more confidence in backlit scenarios. The DR is incredible. Instead of shooting something with the intention of having it silhouetted, It allows for retained information in the foreground to give detail to the image in the foreground.

The downside. I shoot in a fast pace environment and a lot of times in questionable light. Waiting 30 seconds for the camera to start up is terrible and can sometimes kill a shot. Also having to wait a few minutes for the sensor to be warm to prevent a magenta look on the image in the dark is a huge pain.

Post Production really hasn't been affected.
Click to expand...

Would have to agree. The time to get up and running is a nightmare. Fine for studio, bit in the real word of adventure docs, it sucks. Also the added power consumption needed to do this. I'm often away from power for days if not a full week.

6k is a plus, and as mentioned in previous comment being able to reframe a wide interview is great.
 
I'm shooting with confidence between 400 and 4000 ISO knowing what I'll get at the end.

Pat

Ps: Why does it take so long in the last build to start up? It takes ages!
 
Phil hit the nail on the head. Color is incredible. Graeme and the rest of the guys have pulled out some amazing depth of color with DC2 / RC4. Highlight retention is amazing while still retaining deep blacks. The ability to store 4 calibration maps is a game changer for me, as I jump between 23.98, 120 and 240 fps all the time. Before I would have to create the cals and then upload to each card before I shot. Now its all internal and 10 seconds to change the cal.

In post I feel like it has expanded the range of tweakability to the image. So much information in the shadows and highlights- giving me the ability to really dial in how things look. i have never been happier with the images I shoot.
 
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