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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Delivery Update...

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donatello said:
" Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no."

YES they do need it all ... if you think one person can pull off the same production value- then head on down to the ad agency and present you ad at 1/1000 the cost....

Jarred shot looks very good ... now lets have the same shot in a commercial .... now it needs to be shot on this day & during these hours , teh ad agency & client will have 6 persons there ... we need total of 3 cars , need to get permits to control the same road , have XY insurance , schedule police to control traffic , insurance might require stunt drivers , may only have a one 1 hr time window to get the shot , will need persons to clean the car ( dust it , clean off bird crap etc) , where do persons go to bathroom out there ? , food ? ... it's no longer a 2-4 person shoot ... so you say forget the crew, just steal the shot - well you tell the ad agency & client you're just going to go out and steal the shot and you'll show it to them later = not going to happen - you gotta to do it all by the book ( permits , insurance etc ) ..
do you think local ads are only bad because they are shot on SD video ? switch the SD to HD or 35mm you think they'll be any better ? i don't think so ....

"It's the camera department heads I was working with who have the negative attitudes about the camera. As a matter of fact, I ended up sounding like some fanboy touting what I haven't even personally seen either."

just maybe this is like the big stock years ... you know where you go to the gas pump, grocery store , shoe store and the cashier's are giving stock tips, even the oil change guy has stock tips ... today you hear PA's , editors , the stage hand , a guy in art dept , your neighbor ( soundman) all have Red reservations ... so perhaps they're just a bit up to there hearing about RED reservations ??
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Jarred steals the shot, puts together the entire spot that his buddy at XYZ production company (or ad agency) tipped him on, and then he submits a finished promo. Even if he shot completely on spec, so what? If they like it, they like it. I know this won't completely demolish the good ol' boy network, and open the system to new comers, but it will make us a lot more visible. Maybe impossible to ignore in some cases.

If they then want you to reshoot the exact same commercial (music video/feature/whatever), but only this time they want you to spend 10 times as much money and time...well, that'd be fine by me. Just make sure my check is in the mail. The point is, sooner or later, tools like this are going to make it very possible for anyone with time and know-how to compete in this arena. I think some people feel a tad threatened by that. And believe me, I have a real soft spot for all the talented grips, gaffers, dps, caterers et al out there. But that doesn't change the fact that amazing things are possible without all that.

I've done what people said I shouldn't have been able to do without all that, and yet managed to get the images I was after. Now that RED One is here, I'm only going to get better, and the resolution is there to do whatever I'd like - be it FX work or narrative with an eye toward theatrical.
 
Jim, my question still remains. I get that you're not out to screw with your customers. By the same turn, I'm not out to screw with you. But I would like an answer. Maybe this is something you've dealt with so many times over it's banal, but it's new to me. Point me in the right direction, and I'll read your philosophy on marketing and the reason for reservations in another thread, or wherever.

I don't know how else to say this, so I'm going to be very plain: I think the camera is sweet; I plan to purchase one.

So fanboys, my goal is not to sully the capabilities of this machine or the man behind it, I just want straight answers.
 
so now we know what we need to know and the rumours are gone. It would be fine if we can get some more pictures of the camera right now so we can use the waiting time for our marketing campaign.
All the beautiful pictures on the red website are not downloadable. the posters are nice, but we need the newest pictures of the camera !
 
I'm very optimistic about this whole process, but I'm interested to see if any of the December shipping dates will be valid considering it will be the holiday rush time. I hope no RED's will be mysteriously "lost" in the mail. It's amazing how much mail fraud happens around Christmas time.
 
Film Ylem said:
All I'm saying is, I didn't see anything done on the set that anyone else could not pull off without all the extra accoutrements. The operative adjectival clause in the statement you quoted would be "TALENTED helmers." It's going to take trained professionals to act as one man bands, and pull off the impossible. It's a duanting task, and most WILL fail. I realize this camera is simply a tool, but it's a tool that is going to level the playing field from the acquistion standpoint. It's still up to us in the end to come with the ideas, stories and other intangibles that make a film great. Only a moron doesn't get that concept at this point, but thanks for thinking highly of me.

Did Jarred have an art dept, or anything else shooting the driving shots? I doubt it. I'm not saying that is a finished commercial, but it's a damn good starting point, and one that wouldn't cost anything to acquire and bring back to tweak in the lab.

Granted, I was intentionally being overly simplistic when I mentioned three-point lighting, and my goal is not to push anyone out. It's simply to make a place for myself. Right now, the industry is mired in the bullshit of an age old caste system, but that's going to give way. And having the ability to shoot, and finish with the same resolutions as the heavy-hitters puts immense amounts of power in the indie's hands. We're bound to see more talented filmmakers arise, but by the same token, we're also guaranteed to see an exponential jump in trite filmic examples as well (irrespective of how well they look).

But I digress. That's not really the point of the post.
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SEDITION! TUH-REASON!....THIS KIND OF PREACHING MUST BE STOPPED! TAKE HIM TO THE GALLOWS! OFF WITH HIS HEAD! Oh, and trim his toe nails too...
 
thing is I have 8 commercials that i have not promised but I sure had hoped I could shoot on red...even delaying the things to see if it would "happen" in Nov as the schedule had said..awwwww anyway I guess I can't do a thing about it...:) :(
 
number6 said:
SEDITION! TUH-REASON!....THIS KIND OF PREACHING MUST BE STOPPED! TAKE HIM TO THE GALLOWS! OFF WITH HIS HEAD! Oh, and trim his toe nails too...
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Let him dream! Truth is, the gonzo producer has always been around doing things differently. I doubt this will ever replace the mainstream way of doing things. Red is just another tool to assist artists in their jobs. The system has been in place now for over 100 years.

Probably not a bad idea though to CUT OUT HIS TONGUE...before someone starts believing this blasphemy and joins his revolution.:wink: :wink:
 
digitalfx said:
Let him dream! Truth is, the gonzo producer has always been around doing things differently. I doubt this will ever replace the mainstream way of doing things. Red is just another tool to assist artists in their jobs. The system has been in place now for over 100 years.

Probably not a bad idea though to CUT OUT HIS TONGUE...before someone starts believing this blasphemy and joins his revolution. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink
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fsstt uh mmmssss upahuhgize... pop! there... I've got my tongue out of my cheek and can talk more plainly now. In my post, I was being facetious.
 
Drizzt said:
I feel your pain obin.
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And I feel for ya! I got lucky, though. Could just as easily been 200-599, and I'd be out of the Nov race also.

So unless things change again: 600 - How do I love thee? Let me count the ways!
 
"imitate the walk of nature. its secret is patience."

(Ralph Waldo Emerson)
 
"The point is, sooner or later, tools like this are going to make it very possible for anyone with time and know-how to compete in this arena"

that has been here for years and persons have been creating "spec spots " since 50's ... but the problem today is most create spec spots not for a product but to promote themselves ... IMO they are not spec spots they are really "show spots " with Joe Smith as Director or DP for their reel - they never send it to a ad agency ... most do have good production values ... true spec spots are sent into ad agency's and the agency doesn't judge them by what it was shot on - it's the IDEA/script not the production values ... they could care less if you shot on VHS or 35mm - they're looking at the IDEA - they are not going to air it ...

just like any project it all comes down to the SCRIPT ...

if you want to compete - you do it ( at anytime ) ... or you wait till you get the " thing" you think will let you compete - either way at some point you got to get out there on the field ....

"I know this won't completely demolish the good ol' boy network, and open the system to new comers,"

hollywood , ad agency , talent scouts , good ole boy network and many more are ALWAYS looking for new talent ( directors , editors, DP's , actors/actress , producers, gaffers, crew etc ) .. they always have their eyes/ears open ...
 
it sounds like the people on this thread who are complaining the loudest are the ones who already have access to excellent cameras and are fully networked...i'd love to be positioned like those of you who are complaining about having to shoot on varicam or cinealta rigs for the next few months!...

i plan to make a lot of money between now and Christmas shooting and outputting every commercial project that i can get my hands on, with my little canon A1s, and then i plan to make a whole lot more money in 2008 taking advantage of every opportunity that i can find, with my lovely pair of REDS!

i can't thank you enough, jim, for putting quality first.
 
Yeah, complaining is going to speed things up.

Go stand behind engineer's and programmer's back yelling "Faster!"
Than take that product for yourself.
I'll pass, thank you.

I can't believe the arrogancy of some people, thinking they are the only ones who have projects and clients on hold.


Jannard said:
I think it is fair to say that it pains me to delay anything. But it pains me more to have unhappy customers...

Jim
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Some people can relate to that, some just stand in line and grunt.
 
Film Ylem said:
Hmmph. I'm sold. I just don't want to deal with the delays and false expectations, so I'm waiting until the production cycle is a little more ironed out and there are more functioning units in the field.

I worked an industry gig yesterday shooting a commercial for Hidden Valley Ranch. Man. Talk about a waste of time, money and resources. Conventional Hollywood kills me. I brought up the RED One to the camera department and all but got mocked off the set. Honestly though, fuck what they were talking about...and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I can smell a revolution a mile away, they can't help their own myopia. It was just so irritating to witness people fumbling about, not really shooting in the most effective manner, yet reveling in hubris. And all this is shrouded in the false nicety that prevails with the above-the-liners. They are nice enough, but you can sense the self-importance. Hollywood. The day is coming when anyone with skill, and one of these cameras will be able to walk into an agency with the same footage we just spent over $100K capturing. The rub is the person with the RED One, who am I kidding, it's going to be me - anyway, this person will have done the same job in 1/3 the time, and 1/1000th the capital put into it. I'm really curious how the 'industry' is going to continue to justify the exorbitant salaries and excess of gear? Did they really need DIT...no. Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no.

As an aside, I remember when I was at USC and bought one of the first DVD players, and recall a professor and other students guffawing at my choice. "That is never going to make it as a format," is literally what they said. Idiots. RED One is about to make history repeat itself. This camera is going to help put some talented helmers on the map, whereas you'll be able to completely bypass the rigid hierarchy currently in place. Anyone with basic knowledge of three-point lighting will be able to vie for the same jobs and produce the images everyone seems to covet. Look out world. The good old boy network is going to have a hard time continuing to outlay large chunks of capital when you'll continually have a new batch of hungry indies waiting for their turn at bat. Obviously, this is good and bad. But you can imagine that people will be willing to trump the best efforts of production teams for a fraction of the cost. A great example is Jarred's shot out the car window. His method cost nothing, but in the same scenario with a DP, you'd have rigging all over the outside of the car, friggin' hostess trays...retarded.


______
My films, they bring all the girls to the yard. I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.
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You sound naive with these statements. I think you are looking at things from a "functional" point of view. I used to look at things this way. But in so doing you are forgetting the primary motivations of most humans. Which I would classify as "social". Now the word "professional" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the capacity of being able to complete the job with good or even the best results. For example my neighbor is very good at making beats. He works from his bedroom with his computer on top of his dresser. Someone asked if I knew anyone that builds beats. I said my neighbor was very good at building beats. They asked if he had a studio... I said he has a bedroom studio. They asked if I knew anyone else.. LOL. They never did get in touch with my neighbor. So here you have a person that is qualified for the job but is not getting any work.

So you may have a Red camera and be highly "functional" but there are many other pieces to the puzzle in maintaining "professional" business relationships. Not having catering may seem to others has not being professional on your part. Doing a one man job irregardless of the results may also seem to be not "professional".

I am in no way in support of the current state of things but it is something that I've learnt to look pass and to work with the social thinking. So now I have a bunch of extra "symbols" laying around. Everyone thinks I'm "professional".
 
on the subject of "spec" spots..may fav thing to do is have an agency say..."well we like your work but we don't see this xyz style on your reel" then I turn around and shoot the entire spot from provided boards, 100% "Nail" the creative directors "vision" and get the work.

But that is me. and one way to work, not always the best! :)
 
"I worked an industry gig yesterday shooting a commercial for Hidden Valley Ranch. Man. Talk about a waste of time, money and resources. Conventional Hollywood kills me. I brought up the RED One to the camera department and all but got mocked off the set. Honestly though, fuck what they were talking about...and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I can smell a revolution a mile away, they can't help their own myopia. It was just so irritating to witness people fumbling about, not really shooting in the most effective manner, yet reveling in hubris. And all this is shrouded in the false nicety that prevails with the above-the-liners. They are nice enough, but you can sense the self-importance. Hollywood. The day is coming when anyone with skill, and one of these cameras will be able to walk into an agency with the same footage we just spent over $100K capturing. The rub is the person with the RED One, who am I kidding, it's going to be me - anyway, this person will have done the same job in 1/3 the time, and 1/1000th the capital put into it. I'm really curious how the 'industry' is going to continue to justify the exorbitant salaries and excess of gear? Did they really need DIT...no. Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no."


Here is the thing, don't YOU want to make a good living? of course you can do things on the cheap, that is what SPEC work and making "Pilots" or testing new ideas is for. When it comes to ad work, why not get paid, and paid well. I think you will learn this over time. Is it worth making some else's vision if it's not worth your time?
 
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