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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Definitive AP vs. FCP Thread

mmost said:
Avid is cross platform for every editing product other than DS Nitris, and has been for a number of years.
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FCP is not even cross product version. If a project is older than a couple of months you need to upgrade the project file and then you can't open it on older FCP systems anymore.
 
Thor (and all): The Axio cards look like a must-have, if you want efficiency. But I'm not sure which of their models would apply to working with Red's 4K footage. The Quicktime-wrapped RedCode files wouldn't be considered HD exactly, but I guess the Axio HD card would be the closest fit, until there's an Axio 4K-specific card ($6K probably).
 
rebusfilm said:
FCP is not even cross product version. If a project is older than a couple of months you need to upgrade the project file and then you can't open it on older FCP systems anymore.
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You can export the project as an xml file from the higher version and reimport that file in the lower version.
 
This whole discussion reminds me of the whole ford vs chevy (or whatever two competing companies that you want to throw in there). If you're talented you should be able to use either system and get great results. Obviously they have strengths in different areas, but at the end of the day, we all should be able to get great results from both.
 
Agreed, but I'm taking a $10K plunge and I don't have years of hands-on experience with both systems (FCP/AP). So I'm looking for good feedback on which to make my decision. Plus I think it would be good reference for others who ask similar questions in the future.
 
znelson said:
Agreed, but I'm taking a $10K plunge and I don't have years of hands-on experience with both systems (FCP/AP). So I'm looking for good feedback on which to make my decision. Plus I think it would be good reference for others who ask similar questions in the future.
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I think waiting a couple months and watching will be the thing to do. Once cameras get into the wild the entire workflow will be posted by the early RED users.

I've got a friend who loves Final Cut Pro and just upgraded to the 8 Core Mac and FCP 6 and now is having crashes that he's never experienced before. I just got Premiere in CS3 and I've been having some weird issues.

I really don't care which app it is, I just want it to work.
 
joelnet: I'm with you on that. It's a toss-up for me at this point. I don't have to make a buying decision for 6-9 months, so perhaps my inquiry is premature but.. if I had to make the decision today I wouldn't be able to. I like the integration with CS3 and I'm most comfortable on a PC. But FCP 6.0 has RedCode support, but not 10bit. So it's a no-win situation right now.

I'll just be on the sidelines for a few months until everything shakes-out.
 
i was under the impression from attending NAB that FCP 6 does have 10 bit support ?
or is that just 10bit ProRes support ?

RED 103 will be up in Oct.. i'm on a PC and have no solutions yet other then that i would have to render out to ? .. i'm not going for the render thing - been there - done it = too much time wasted ...
so i'm looking for something ON set that i can just drop the files into TL and it plays - which appears to be FCP ( once they have the RED plug in available) or Scratch or just use RedCine ? .. not looking to edit the projects ... only something for on set , or in pre production show Directors/DP's/Producer what RED raw can do ..
 
We'll know within the week what you can just drop the files into, I'm thinking that we'll all be happily surprised with Redquick and what RED has done. I can't wait to test out the footage in CS3 w/ Pr and Ae. JOELNET, What issues are you having in CS3? It has been great for me so far.
 
donatello... I believe Rob Lohman has indicated that the Quicktime reference files will play back in applications that understand Quicktime. So you can drop the files in and play them back. It is real-time if the files can be decoded in real-time (which remains to be seen, though I'd really expect at least the 0.5k resolution reference files to play in RT).

The integration sort of gives you image processing controls from Redcine within Final Cut Pro. (This has not shipped yet.)

i was under the impression from attending NAB that FCP 6 does have 10 bit support ?
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FCP does have 10-bit support. It can ingest and export 10-bit.

To render 10-bit, your sequence has to be set to do that (it is set by default in 10-bit sequences I believe). You can also render in the higher precision 32-bit "YUV" mode. The 10-bit stuff in FCP is sometimes buggy.
EDIT: (I can't remember the exact modes in FCP.)
 
high-precision "YUV" mode is the 10-bit mode in FCP, other modes are 8-bit. Make sure your output codec supports 10-bit (otherwise you can't select that option) and enable it in your sequence settings!
 
luminoir said:
You can export the project as an xml file from the higher version and reimport that file in the lower version.
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But then you need access to the higher version of FCP to do the export. And there are now four versions of xml to choose from.
I find it much easier to share bins with master clips and sequences in Avid for example. Just email the bin and relink the media.
I haven't used Premiere Pro so I don't know the workflow there.
 
Hi Znelson (or how the name is exactly),

I have been editing on Ppro for nearly 3 years, and now I'm also searching about switching to Mac (I don't have a RED camera, don't have nearly the budget).

Why?
- I *hate* the simple fact that in Premiere Pro, if you want to edit your video and audio a bit different from each other, you have to unlink EVERY clip and then you can do it. In FCP, it's one button away to unlink all your video and audioclips on your timeline.

- FCP is much more supported in the industry.

- FCS 2 seems like a VERY good package.

- FCP seems to support more new formats.

Otherwise, I'm very interested in this thread too. I have some of the same questions as you do: what will have to render exactly in FCS 2?
I worked with FC Pro 4 a while ago, and I liked it, but I had to render the simplest things before I could see them! In Premiere Pro, if you put a cross dissolve or colour correction or 16/9 widescreen masks on your footage, you can see the results immediately. Yes you have to render, but you see things real time. How is that in FCS 2? Let's say on a STANDARD Mac Pro at this moment, with 2GB of RAM?

And same questions: what are the advantages or disadvantages of one or the other, and why?

(ps: I'll be reading that Color issues sticky, interesting...)

Thanks,
 
sidderke said:
Hi Znelson (or how the name is exactly),

And same questions: what are the advantages or disadvantages of one or the other, and why?
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Advantage of Final Cut: It runs very well on a Mac.
Disadvantage of Final Cut: It only runs on a Mac.
 
Hi,

We've seen this same changings exactly in the professional audio industry.
I've always been very carefull when choosing a system and it seems obvious to me that bigger names don't always count. Artistic experience stays the most important thing.

I've used protools a lot and changed over to nuendo some years ago for the flexibility, pricetag and quality of sound without ever regretting it. However I had to defend myself several times why my protools had been going out. At that time it was running on a g3 and then g4 and it crashed more than i could
dream off.

It also seems obvious to me that all my collegues using avid don't have a clue of what else there is on the market. Sometimes I'm asking myself if they take their jobs any serious how they can manage it without checking out what other systems and progress there is in the bizz.

When i started out on premiere I did this after a long search and after some companies willing to sell me their high priced systems that could'nt do a thing more then what I expected it to do for me.
In those years I've gained enough profit to say all their marketing talk seemed
useless in my case.

Recently I've built a new quad core pc system running both the adobe bundle and edius pro 4.5.
Stability in edius is much greater on my systems now but seems to lack a lot of features i was finding in premiere. On the other hand the UI of premiere and fcp look quiet the same to me and have similar tools.
Some things are still missing badly in premiere like the things you mentioned not being able doing some functions for several clips at once. This is a thing I've never understood.
If you're ever editing some footage, even if you're not experienced in doing it,
it may not take you more then 15 min to find out this features seem to be so
regularly needed all the time , that i don't see any excuse of the programmers being obligated to be aware of their failing on this subject, and then I ask myself if they have ever tried to edit something for real or were they only preparing some projects for tradeshows and codec testings???

Anyway , me also, I keep searching for the best tools and I'll buy the best they could offer me.

I hope what happened to the music bizz doesn't show up to fast in the movie and tv industry. On the other hand , this maby won't be the bizz of the rich and provided anymore, but maby talent will win in the end.
 
I just completed a 68-minute project in FCS2, no rendering required for cross-dissolves, 3-way color corrector, no render for DVX, Sony HC1(1080i), Canon HV02(1080i) on the same timeline either - they all played very nicely together. FCP6 is very intuitive as well (for me). Mac G5 Dual 1.8Mhz, 3.5 GB RAM.

sidderke said:
Hi Znelson (or how the name is exactly),
... In Premiere Pro, if you put a cross dissolve or colour correction or 16/9 widescreen masks on your footage, you can see the results immediately. Yes you have to render, but you see things real time. How is that in FCS 2? Let's say on a STANDARD Mac Pro at this moment, with 2GB of RAM?
Click to expand...
 
sven: I was all pro-tools (LE) because I thought it was what the "pros" used. It was. But after dealing with the huge amount of problems with the software I finally tossed it and picked up an Echo Labs Layla 3G that had better specs and cleaner sound. I definitely think it doesn't matter what audio software you use as long as you get the job done. You can't tell what app was used after it's mixed down to stereo anyway. I knew one guy who created amazing tracks and then I found out he used FruityLoops which was just a toy!

pixelchef: I would've expected needing a beefier system, like a dual 2.8 or quad core. I guess the hardware has finally crossed the line where even a reasonable configuration is all that's needed now. No need for super over the top $10K multi-cores and whatnot when a 2GHz box runs the software just fine. That's awesome news.
 
"just completed a 68-minute project in FCS2, no rendering required for cross-dissolves, 3-way color corrector, "

i just worked with a FCP6 editor ( laptop pro) and it had to render everything - dissolves,CC , even assembling clips ??? if it didn't render the screen was black .... this was DV clips , the rendering was fast but for me it very difficult to get use to - made me think twice about switching to FCP ...
 
donatello said:
i just worked with a FCP6 editor ( laptop pro) and it had to render everything - dissolves,CC , even assembling clips ??? if it didn't render the screen was black .... this was DV clips , the rendering was fast but for me it very difficult to get use to - made me think twice about switching to FCP ...
Click to expand...

Are you sure your Sequence Settings were correct? FCP should work in real time for this. Even on a macbook, you should be able to do HDV in realtime, easily, never mind DV. Make sure your Sequence Settings are exactly right. If they are, I'd be getting your laptop looked at.
 
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