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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Definitive AP vs. FCP Thread

..still waiting for definitive word/proof on the premiere workflow..
 
I`ve traditionally used premiere and AE in the past for editing, plus some of my own software for quirky stuff, but have tried many editing packages (thanks P2P). At the end of the day, if you can get footage in & out, the software will work.
For me the clincher will be whether 24bit audio is supported or not (not sure there is a standard there on a PC yet ie, soundforge 24bit wav isn`t compatible with wavelab 24 bit etc, although that might be different for AIFFs )
Some friends of mine (and my sister and husband also) use AVID. Anyway, the friends in question are film grads. They shot a half hour film on super 16. Footage was dumped to DV, then everything was about creating an EDL for cutting the film. They exported a generic EDL from premiere I believe, but wanted to colour grade in AVID. Avid wouldn`t take the EDL. I think in the end they copied timecode by hand from the original EDL (several times). Sounded like a nightmare. Since Red footage is the master footage (not the proxy) you could avoid EDLs altogether by simply rendereing out, which is what I`ll do. I think I`ll be using Photoshop (using automate) to perform much colour correction, on 16bit image sequences. I couldn`t care less what `the industry` is using, most of them won`t be working on my projects, I recommend everyone has the same attitude. Relax and don`t worry. Use P2P to find answers, then buy. Just because software has a function, doen`t mean it will work, or not crash. I`ll be looking into FCP simply because of the Red support. I`ll also be looking into cineform plugins working alongside premiere. Having a 16bit workflow is the most important thing. Some premiere filters are only 8bit. I`m not prepared to spend a fortune on a Mac, thats for definite. I hope Red don`t align too strongly to apple, and keep development platform unbiased. Now that Mac`s run on intel, things will be easier.

PS, traditionally it was cheaper to buy a piece of video hardware that had premiere bundled in, than buying premiere on its own (ie $600 for premiere or $100 for capture card+premiere). I think premiere has stopped doing that now. If you can get software bundled with hardware its usually much better value.
 
Since Red footage is the master footage (not the proxy) you could avoid EDLs altogether by simply rendereing out, which is what I`ll do.
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That won't work for cross dissolves, and you will have to notch/indicate where all your edit points are (to grade clip by clip). You could potentially export a big file, with little files for every cross dissolve, and notch all your edit points by reading numbers off an EDL. Though there are likely less time-consuming workflows once details of Redcine get released. But if there isn't, this is not so bad.

I think I`ll be using Photoshop (using automate) to perform much colour correction, on 16bit image sequences.
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I'd much rather use After Effects... it renders faster and you can work faster in it (since you can scrub footage and check for potential problems)... and you can do masking and motion tracking and paint etc. etc. etc.
 
I never said that being a team player means an equal team -- it's my team. I'm financing the projects, my company finds the clients, and there is no equality here except between me and my business partner. Editors are a dime a dozen, and aren't expensive, either. I know what I want and if an editor has the technical skills I am going to be present during editing, anyway, so I can easily find a good FCP editor out there. It's not like there is any shortage of them without work.

I'm sure a lot of people would love to believe that anyone in this business with talent is just so hugely in demand that you can't find them. That's a load of BS. This town is loaded with so much talent that all kinds of amazing people are working for free, which is sad but it's also reality.

I care about the finished product, sure, but I'm not going to blow $70,000 on an Avid system that a $20,000 FCP system can run circles around. If the editor would like to use Avid on the project they're going to have to provide all of the equipment for free and bring it to my office, because that's where the editing is done so I can be present and I'm not paying extra for unnecessary equipment, i.e. there's no way I'd work with someone who only uses Avid. Find a job elsewhere.
 
Jonathan, what gives man? You are on a rampage about not wanting to pay a lot of money for gear and now about getting editors a dime a dozen. I really think your attitude supersedes your actual intent. I could break this post down into a more reasonable one that is a little gentler. Here is a different approach.

When financing my projects I will be looking for affordable Final Cut Pro editors who have talent and are easy to work. There is a lot of talent out there and I'm sure I can find some people that will fit into our business model very well.

Avid is a great system and has done a lot for the industry but times are changing and I believe Final Cut Pro is the solution for our office. We will be looking for editors who edit Final Cut Pro. If they have an Avid background, that's fine but they also must be proficient with Final Cut or else we'll have to look to someone else.

My 2 cents.

Steve
 
And don't get me wrong, your posts crack me up. So I'm not telling you that you have to change.

Steve
 
I used both editing programs since I have my Sony HDV Camera in late 1994. At this time Premiere 1.5 with the Aspect HD from Cineform was a well working platform for working with HDV. Premiere 2.0 offered native HDV editing but I had severe problems to keep video and sound synchronized.

In 1994 I think it was FCP Version 4 which was only able to work with HDV by using a cumbersome conversion process with the Lumiere plug in. Then FCP 5 came also out with native HDV editing which worked perfect for me. No sync issues.

Today with Premiere Pro CS3 and FCP6 I'm moving more and more to my MAC by using Final Studio Pro. I'm not a MAC purist but overall FCP just worked out better for me.
 
So Jonathan, if a client wants everything in Avid compatible formats, are you going to turn them down?
And I have to say, just a friendly warning.. if you really treat people like dogs, you will become very familiar with a term called "blacklisted". The film/video community in SoCal is a heck of a lot tighter than you are making it out to be. I know that even living on the East Coast.
You will always attract more talent with honey than vinegar.
 
Hello, your friendly neighborhood OP here.. has any of the 1-50's done anything with Premiere? .. on a PC? anybody? The community is still looking for workflow feedback for this (and a sub-forum) :)
 
zeke said:
So Jonathan, if a client wants everything in Avid compatible formats, are you going to turn them down?
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If they're running Media Composer on OS 9 boxes like a certain regular client of ours, I would certainly think about it. But that's more related to the sheer difficulty of interface with that facility's bizarrely outdated hardware than any ideological stance.
 
GlennChan said:
That won't work for cross dissolves, and you will have to notch/indicate where all your edit points are (to grade clip by clip). You could potentially export a big file, with little files for every cross dissolve, and notch all your edit points by reading numbers off an EDL. Though there are likely less time-consuming workflows once details of Redcine get released. But if there isn't, this is not so bad.


I'd much rather use After Effects... it renders faster and you can work faster in it (since you can scrub footage and check for potential problems)... and you can do masking and motion tracking and paint etc. etc. etc.
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Yes indeed, lots of small files, baked and rendered out, fades etc added last stage. Lightwave taught me how to wait. and then wait some more. And your right about AE speed, but I probably need a much newer version though. I wish adobe still bundled with H/W. I`m going to be relying on shelves of cheap external disks for dealing with footage. Nothing real-time.
 
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