DEEP ATOM down under

[Joey R.]

Joey, I pick up 2 matched Ruby's in an hour.

Expect me in the shop soon!!!

Since the project I'm working on bought an atom and ruby's I need to find out this information ASAP!!!

Next week I should have some results to talk about.

Bring in a set of EPICs and we can test to your heart's content

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

We just started shipping our new underwater lights today, which means my head has been inside a milling machine, not reading this forum.

Some thoughts....

* This debate is important and insightful. We are collectively learning 3D and blazing new trails.

* The list of individuals and production companies with input to the design of DPA (DEEP PULSAR / ATOM) is lengthy. I'm not one to drop names, you all know them and their experience shooting underwater 3D through a flat port. It's been done...ALOT.

* Our customers and design team fully appreciate that DPA is not a full wide angle solution. DPA will shoot 16mm @ 5K down to macro. Testing has already been performed with this setup, and the results entirely pleasing to Evergreen Films. Angeniuex 16-42, using a 'shifted' QUASAR mirror on the ATOM rig. You're welcome Pedro.

* This capability will be complimented by a parallel system to shoot wide to ultra wide (much like we've come to expect in 2D). You can obviously create a parallel system for u/w with 2x domes, but the IA is big, with resultant miniaturization and other effects. To shoot close and wide 3D underwater requires a parallel rig with very small IA and really wide lenses. At the moment, the Holy Grail. Having said that, we have some promising in-house optical concepts to solve that problem.

Can someone explain why they are building a housing for a mirror rig rather than just making the housing the mirror rig?

I can understand the Atom rig in a housing for a very few types of Hollywood/feature mid range shots but it seems to me that for most actual underwater 3D you will either shoot as wide as possible or shoot macro. For wide you want as wide as possible so might as well build a housing for the largest practical mirror and lenses, and by definition it is going to be pretty big with large volume. Seems like adding the rig in there just adds more size and complexity without much added utility.

* As Pedro points out, ET has their specialty, we have ours. It's a great collaboration. Also, my customers want to use their ET rigs topside. Further, making the housing the 3D rig we've found risky: even the slightest flex under pressure kills your alignments. We couldn't rate the housing to 150 feet / 45m otherwise.

* DPA is breaking new ground on several fronts. The level of integration with ET is deep (pun intended). One diver operation with full camera / lens control at hand -- or from the surface. Full REDMOTE access. Shoot upright, or inverted. 2.5hrs+ battery life. And many other subtle details for the u/w professional.

FYI our first production run has started. Ketch, Ross and Evergreen are (amongst others) our valued first customers. If you're interested in delivery of a rig this fall contact me directly
http://www.gateshousings.com/support/contact-us.php

Special thanks to Ketch for the kind words and loyal defense of Gates.

J-

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Wow that is great news John!!

I have projects in line.....and I'm also part of the 3D crew on the evergreen project so I'm sure I'll be having the pleasure of working on the DPA soon!

I stopped by ET today and spoke to Hector. (joey was elsewhere)

I will be bringing by the lens and an epic for testing next week.

Also Hector is providing me with a RED One ET housing with a flat port for me to test the Ruby 14-24mm.

I plan on testing them in a pool......grid, res chart etc.... then I taking it to catalina for a real world image test.

I'll then bring the images back, my step dad is a quantel pablo operator and I'll take a close look at them.

Stay tuned....

 

[Ketch Rossi]

My pleasure John,
it is not only about defending your company's integrity but also our own which we have chosen GATES and its new rigs,
with tough process and even so I sure don't consider myself a UW expert shooter, @ KETCH ROSSi STUDiOS we sure do count with a wide range of Professional UW shooters which have worked for many years,
and have done some insane stuff on Flat port UWH, for this we are confident of what you guys are doing with Deep Atom, and can't wait to take it under and bring some Magical under water projects to life...

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Btw, if some one wishes to attack GATES they should do so on their company not on some one else's happy thread..

Special thanks to Ketch for the kind words and loyal defense of Gates.

Not sure where you guys are reading an attack on Gates? I was simply criticising the solution and adjusting your expectations of what you are likely to expect from the image quality. An angle of 7 degrees difference between red and blue spectrum, in layman's terms, is dog's breakfast. As noted earlier, the problem is not related to Gates, but it is general problem of the whole concept of shooting wide angle through a flat port.

As to 3D, I believe one can achieve better image quality using smaller cameras side by side, like GoPro, despite vastly inferior image recording quality. Bigger is not always better :smile5:

Yes, Ketch, I do have a solution, but I am also intending to capitalise on my knowledge and experience and obviously will not disclose it on an internet forum before filing suitable patent applications. For the record, CinePort is still the only piece of wide angle underwater optics able to resolve 4k underwater, not Gates, not Amphbico, not even Howard Hall with 70mm IMAX rig.

I am intending to provide several 3D wide angle underwater housings to US operators. If interested, please send me an email, including John J Ellerbrock :beer:

 

[Ross Isaacs]

Not sure where you guys are reading an attack on Gates? I was simply criticising the solution and adjusting your expectations of what you are likely to expect from the image quality. An angle of 7 degrees difference between red and blue spectrum, in layman's terms, is dog's breakfast. As noted earlier, the problem is not related to Gates, but it is general problem of the whole concept of shooting wide angle through a flat port.

As to 3D, I believe one can achieve better image quality using smaller cameras side by side, like GoPro, despite vastly inferior image recording quality. Bigger is not always better :smile5:

Yes, Ketch, I do have a solution, but I am also intending to capitalise on my knowledge and experience and obviously will not disclose it on an internet forum before filing suitable patent applications. For the record, CinePort is still the only piece of wide angle underwater optics able to resolve 4k underwater, not Gates, not Amphbico, not even Howard Hall with 70mm IMAX rig.

I am intending to provide several 3D wide angle underwater housings to US operators. If interested, please send me an email, including John J Ellerbrock :beer:

So Pawel will these housings be for 5K Epic cameras or GoPros?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

So Pawel will these housings be for 5K Epic cameras or GoPros?

LOL, you cracked me up, Ross. They will be for the Epics, of course. I was just saying that in certain situations other, lesser equipment may be able to produce better results.

The housing is specifically designed for 3D wide and normal angles (approximately 100 - 35 degrees range) and performing better edge-to-edge than the CinePort. Target weight of the rig ready to dive: 16kg - no, this is not a typo! Not 160kg, not 1600kg; 16kg for a fully kitted rig containing 2 Epics, lenses, batteries, controls, monitor, and the 3D front port. The housing will be made almost entirely of Titanium. It will also feature HD-SDI cable to surface.

The optics will also cover (and resolve) FF35 in eager anticipation of the 6k Monstro sensor upgrade.

I'm estimating the availability for December. The design is finalised. Components are already being manufactured and sourced.

I'm seeking expressions of interest from operators and rental companies world-wide. It will be a very complementary setup to the DEEP ATOM in terms of the angle of view and competitive in terms of resolution, distortions and aberrations.

 

[Ross Isaacs]

So Pawel is this a beamsplitter design or side by side?

 

[Johnny Friday]

ha ha ha ha...this thread for us u/w freaks is now just becoming good humor to read. Pawel, i have to say you have some very interesting comments and rooted in fact of course. But you do criticize somehow some very respected folks. It is understandable that everyone wants to shoot the best quality possible, but at this moment there are only so many options available. DJ Roller is of note here with his new rig as well. BUT, you have yet to bring something to the table at the moment. I know you ARE going to do that, but what can you do TODAY? sure, you can talk about it and criticize wtih mucho gusto. But try to keep in mind also what is possible today.....Pedro laid the case very well.-------what is acceptablle NOW!!!


...we all know there is a better solution next week. What can you do for me today ?

Now, before you get offended by my "straight talk" remarks....I do respect the science behind what you say. BUT, keep in mind you are also talking about artists like Howard Hall, Bob Cranston and others...that have DONE IT---PUT IT ON THE SCREEN!!! I think you should keep this in mind before you begin with the attitude that you often bring to the u/w forum.

Again, said with all due respect.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Johnny, it is my understanding that DEEP ATOM is NOT available today. Again, not criticising individuals, just the solution. I know Howard and Michelle Hall personally and enjoy their cinematography a lot.

Further, there is nothing wrong with DEEP ATOM for shooting macro subjects and I do not have and do not intend to have solution for that purpose. I'm interested in wide angles and have solution for such purpose which, to my best belief, others do not have.
You said that it is not available, true. What is, however available today is a housing for RED One and the Epic using MP 14 and CinePort combo, here in sunny Tasmania BTW, many thanks to valued Reduser, Mike Saymour for providing access to his Epic-M.

Ross, sorry I'm not able to reveal more details at the moment. It is somewhat very innovative solution.

Let us know when your rig turns up - I'm very curious of the beast

 

[Johnny Friday]

Pawel, you just seem to have a knack for taking a leak on others work.....like HH and his IMAX work. This discussion would mean something if you had your work on the big screen as well and could stand shoulder to shoulder, but c'mon. PLEASE. I'm very pleased you have a solution for wide angle and we get to see it very soon. YOu will have a lot of folks waiting with baited breath to here more....

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Exactly Johnny,

what I say is this, never trash other people's work, which you guys did, Pawel and Michael, I don't care how you sliced,
and never do so on some one else's thread about the product in question, if you must, well, start your own thread...

Further more, we do have cash to spend, lots of it, so Deep Atom, will surely not be the only UW 3D Solution we will ever buy, as Atom is not the only 3D solution we will ever use...

We are storytellers, Filmmakers of passion, and always on the look out for new tools to tell our stories, so your product will be most welcome by ,any I m sure, ourselves included,
just learn how to present it in a better and more diplomatic way Pawel... You do have more then one potential customer here, just don't insult the work of others which we trust,
cause that means you are also insulting our intelligence as we did chose their products...

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Who exactly am I trashing? Can you please provide me a quote?

I said that I admire Howard Hall's work and that shooting wide angle through flat port produces very poor results for the reasons I detailed.
I criticised the solution for particular use, which you incorrectly assumed would produce good results. DEEP ATOM will be certainly a great setup for macro work but not for wide angles. I'm not trashing anyone, just pointing out and giving a friendly advice from my experience and knowledge in the field.

I think you need to read my posts more carefully and distinguish a discussion about technical merits and people or companies chosing certain designs which may be not suitable for the purpose you intend to use those designs from trashing anyone personally. Geeeeez.... I'm excited that Ross is getting DEEP ATOM and that I may be able to get access to it here in Oz when I need a 3D macro setup....just not for wide angle work.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Well, I give you that been English my fourth language, there is room for misunderstadning, what is oyur excuse Pawel??

Please go back and read carefully every post I made, and you "QUOTE" me were I ever said anything about what "WIDE" Focal would we use with DEEP ATOM??

I have done my home work carefully, and besides holding one dozen (uncertified) Diplomas, I always make it my point to study and do home work before putting my self in to something.

I consider my self a true professional and master of the arts in which I cement my self, so excuse me if I take it a bit offensive and in need to defend my self when I fill offended and trashed.

Again, I said you have potential customers here, but not if you talk negatively and assume to know it all, share your knowledge as I do, what ever little mine might be, I always share it and give m,y opinions with
as well put wording and never in any way were they can come across as offensive to others or they work or the product of their work...

 

[Ross Isaacs]

At the end of the day it's about having great tools to tell a story. I think given the limits of the technologies we apply to our story telling we tend do more with less given those limitations.
The DEEP ATOM will be a big evolution in underwater imaging and a superb addition to our ability to enhance the creative process and it will value add to those abilities to create an illusionary world. We all want to feel as though we are contributing at some level to this collective consciousness and evolution and I enjoy the community spirit here.

After all "art is the lie which enables us to realise the truth" - Pablo Picasso

 

[Ketch Rossi]

At the end of the day it's about having great tools to tell a story. I think given the limits of the technologies we apply to our story telling we tend do more with less given those limitations.
The DEEP ATOM will be a big evolution in underwater imaging and a superb addition to our ability to enhance the creative process and it will value add to those abilities to create an illusionary world. We all want to feel as though we are contributing at some level to this collective consciousness and evolution and I enjoy the community spirit here.

After all "art is the lie which enables us to realise the truth" - Pablo Picasso

Ditto...

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

But try to keep in mind also what is possible today.....Pedro laid the case very well.-------what is acceptablle NOW!!!

Again, said with all due respect.

amen.....like I said, I have projects booked that I need to equip and shoot what's in the script regardless of how good or bad the technology is.

me and the filmmakers "might" be willing to live with "good enough". Certainly has been the case in the recent past as I pointed out.


I sorry but I have to dis agree with you pawel,

You make it sound like the deep atom would only be useful for MACRO work.......I have to disagree strongly. I know for a fact I will be able to shoot alot more than macro with it....I work with the atom alot in the last 4 months and even if I'm restricted on focal lengths there should be alot you can do with it besides macro....

as far as what you are working on........it sounds FANTASTIC.

When you can make it public or are ready have me sign a NDA so we can start using it.....please contact me as soon as that happens.

I have project shooting in sept. 2 more after that that need something like what you are alluding to.

exciting times we live in.....

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Picked them up today from Stuart......

Serial 19 & 27 hand matched from his second production batch.

I also picked up a commercial on tues-wed.....

so i have to push the test to thurs-friday....

I will try for an epic underwater, worst case it will be a REDMX

 

[Ross Isaacs]

Hey Pedro

I was considering getting a matched pair of the Rubys' 14-24mm for Deep Atom but am going with the Angenieux 16-42mm 3D Optimos. I would very interested to see how the Rubys go with 3D underwater?

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Hey Pedro

I was considering getting a matched pair of the Rubys' 14-24mm for Deep Atom but am going with the Angenieux 16-42mm 3D Optimos. I would very interested to see how the Rubys go with 3D underwater?

hehehe......exactly why I'm doing the test. We already have rouge 16-42mm and shot alot of epic 3D footage on them and they are great. But these lens are beautiful and they bought them in fact to capture some large architectural spaces (think the Kings speech).

Now with ET's larger mirror.....they MIGHT be more useful in the deep atom now as well.....

by friday I'm hoping to have an answer.