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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

December 1st Dragon Sensor upgrade price increase reminder

I have to say - this thread alone has probably prompted the RED For Sale market to become extremely saturated with Scarlets. Are we all becoming victims of G.A.S.?
 
Troy Bakewell said:
. (Provided Epix Dragon X becomes available soon.).
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Dragon X isn't until December 1st ( actually may be a week sooner depending on how many stragglers we have left over the last email blast )

Remember we promised to wait on selling new Dragon X until everyone was upgraded or had the opportunity to have the upgrade done since it took so long to get through all of them. That day will also be when the Scarlet direct to Dragon X opportunity opens up as well.

As for the reason price increase... The upgrade simply costs more to do when the majority of upgrades are complete and we wind down the multiple upgrade lines and lower the volume or parts we manufacture for the upgrades.. lower volume = higher cost. We have been always been transparent about this and for us to be able to lower prices when things cost us less like we have before, we need to be able to raise prices when things cost more.

Make sense?
 
I'm a straggler (LOL), in the position of waiting for a client to pay, and then can get the upgrade ordered - if not, I'll probably look at buying a new Dragon X sometime in the New Year and maybe keep the Epic as MX. It really depends on the Dragon X price I suppose :)

Jarred - economies of scale etc, all makes sense to me. I think (personally) that the easiest thing would be to clarify the Dragon X price point, the fact that nobody knows what this is makes some think the update is expensive (I have vague memories Dragon X was projected around the $24K point - but that may have been FUD?) - so a clear 'new' price vs upgrade now or upgrade later might just clarify things for doubters/naysayers etc.
 
Thanks for clarification Jarred! Looking forward to hopefully placing an order on an Epic X Dragon ;)

Jarred Land said:
Dragon X isn't until December 1st ( actually may be a week sooner depending on how many stragglers we have left over the last email blast )

Remember we promised to wait on selling new Dragon X until everyone was upgraded or had the opportunity to have the upgrade done since it took so long to get through all of them. That day will also be when the Scarlet direct to Dragon X opportunity opens up as well.

As for the reason price increase... The upgrade simply costs more to do when the majority of upgrades are complete and we wind down the multiple upgrade lines and lower the volume or parts we manufacture for the upgrades.. lower volume = higher cost. We have been always been transparent about this and for us to be able to lower prices when things cost us less like we have before, we need to be able to raise prices when things cost more.

Make sense?
Click to expand...
 
same..i think there is a lot to be said for their upgrade path...makes it far easier to hop scarlet, epic, dragon then to buy into the expensive system off rip... i don't know how to even go about getting another high end system, the upgrade path really helps make this stuff affordable in smaller payments


Troy Bakewell said:
I tend to agree with everyone here to an extent. The upgrade price was pretty high to begin with. With the increase I seriously think it's probably a better move to simply sell your camera and buy a new brain. (Provided Epix Dragon X becomes available soon.)

But, Dragon kicks so much arse it's certainly worth it IMO.

I too went the Scarlet, Epic, Dragon route. All I can say is that I feel a lot of gratitude toward RED. I bought a new Scarlet and used the hell out of it. When I bought it I was seriously considering the C300. The lack of interchangable lens mounts was what tipped me in favor of the Scarlet. Had I bought a C300 back then my camera investment would have depreciated a lot more than my comperable RED investment thanks in large part to the upgrade program. For $9.5k I was able to uprage to a brand new Epic! What a steal of a deal IMO. The Dragon upgrade gave me the latest state-of-the-art camera.

Thanks RED for that!

I think that the increase in price may be an indication of a future price drop for MX cameras which I think is justified considering just how awesome Dragon is compared to MX.

I feel bad for everyone who can't swing the upgrade before the price increase because it is steep. It would rock if RED allowed you to place a non refundable deposit to hold the old upgrade price for a few months. I agree that because Dragon was late that it feels too soon for the increase. But the camera landscape changes so fast these days.

Perhaps financing the upgrade now would be the best option for some before the price increase. I don't know. I can see both sides here. But bottom line is I think RED rocks for offering the upgrades in the first place. I feel bad for all of the early F3 owners for example. At least it gives you more options. Also it's probably one of the main reasons that RED gear holds its value so well compared to other brands.
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Please please please put me in line for a Dragon-X. The only thing better than a Dragon is two Dragons. Thank you Red and Jarred!
 
Jarred Land said:
We already announced that at NAB, $24k :)
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Ahh - so my memory didn't play tricks on me, I just couldn't remember if it was conjecture (from a forum post) or official - guess that's clarified now :)
 
Doug Beatty said:
As an Epic X owner, the upgrade reaaaallly won't make any sense in a couple of weeks unless Epic MX brain price drops to 11.5, and if that happens hoo boy, that will cause quite the stir.
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buy a dragon get a free BT scarlet mx (for limited time only)...now that'd be cool lol!
 
I´ve not decided yet. But I´m like: Clients won't know the difference and I´m not renting out. Nobody in my neighbourhood knows the difference between a MX and a Dragon. And I have a feeling that post-Dragon we will see a brand new camera (in 2-3 years time), so better to have those 10 grands to use for this new 30 grand camera, which will be lighter, more ergonomic etc. etc.

But as I say, I have not decided yet.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Everyone is entitled to, and has (lol) their own opinion, but what makes the pricing "unfair"?
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i not sure if anyone has used the term unfair .. id stick with uncompetitive personally .. $9k .. for a sensor upgrade?

$6k was expensive.. but doable with my uk rental market model i work to.

i work hard. red are NOT cheap, to buy , or maintain. ive kept up for 5years now

it comes down to supply and demand i suppose. my demand just wained significantly

noone at red can explain the price rise other than "we announced it a year ago etc".. fair enough.. i guess they've bee selling dragons at a loss until now?

i had every intention of upgrading, but that WAS six months away .. now its just away..
 
egon touste said:
i not sure if anyone has used the term unfair .. id stick with uncompetitive personally .. $9k .. for a sensor upgrade?

$6k was expensive.. but doable with my uk rental market model i work to.

i work hard. red are NOT cheap, to buy , or maintain. ive kept up for 5years now

it comes down to supply and demand i suppose. my demand just wained significantly

noone at red can explain the price rise other than "we announced it a year ago etc".. fair enough.. i guess they've bee selling dragons at a loss until now?

i had every intention of upgrading, but that WAS six months away .. now its just away..
Click to expand...

Jarred just explained the price increase. And it's not just a sensor upgrade. It's new boards too. It's basically a whole new camera.

What else could you get comparably for $9,500? I don't see it as uncompetitive at all. Everyone else is at 4K. Dragon is at 6K with superb dynamic range, incredibly manageable file sizes, and swappable OLPFs (multiple cameras for price of one).
 
Jarred Land said:
Dragon X isn't until December 1st ( actually may be a week sooner depending on how many stragglers we have left over the last email blast )

Remember we promised to wait on selling new Dragon X until everyone was upgraded or had the opportunity to have the upgrade done since it took so long to get through all of them. That day will also be when the Scarlet direct to Dragon X opportunity opens up as well.

As for the reason price increase... The upgrade simply costs more to do when the majority of upgrades are complete and we wind down the multiple upgrade lines and lower the volume or parts we manufacture for the upgrades.. lower volume = higher cost. We have been always been transparent about this and for us to be able to lower prices when things cost us less like we have before, we need to be able to raise prices when things cost more.

Make sense?
Click to expand...

sorry, that does not make sense, as you have people who can "assemble" the parts you buy in, so why not have a stockpile for upgrading and fixing cameras ?

everything is setup, upgraders know what they're doing now..and you know where to buy..sorry..manufacture the parts you need to assemble cameras..

i thought that the point of a homogenous body design across models, was so that you could benefit from economies of scale, and have parts readily available?
 
egon touste said:
sorry, that does not make sense, as you have people who can "assemble" the parts you buy in, so why not have a stockpile for upgrading and fixing cameras ?

everything is setup, upgraders know what they're doing now..and you know where to buy..sorry..manufacture the parts you need to assemble cameras..

i thought that the point of a homogenous body design across models, was so that you could benefit from economies of scale, and have parts readily available?
Click to expand...

Right. And the economies of scale are shrinking. RED already had a massive volume of upgrades. And now the upgrades are slowing down to a trickle. Smaller scale.

I understand you're frustrated, but I'm not sure questioning RED's intentions are going to get you what you want.
 
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