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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dear Jim

Jt... i feel you.
about four months ago I was in a situation where I had to decide if I wanted to cancel my reservation or not. which was not an easy choice... I had these cravings for the best and most luxurious technology, but at the same time a stern voice was telling me, "its a computer god damnit! you are mad to buy a computer for your 40 grand savings" and in the end I jumped off the bandwagon.
However I think that you and akube and many others falsely condemns RED for improving their products. As I understood the "obsolescence obsolete" it meant targetting at the quality of filmstocks, and making digital video into "digital cinema" compatible with the best cine-lenses and accesories out there. And in that sense (apart from a DR stop or two) RED has succeeded. Secondly it was aimed at the "fixed lens" hd-cams where you had to buy the whole new package to get the simple improvements you wanted. Thirdly, back then indies main hurdle was the "good enough for hollywood", and here jim not only delivered, but even went out of his way to prove it to everybody, with the likes of soderberg and peter jackson. Essentially doing the persuasion that would have been yours and other redowners task.

The reason I am posting in this whiner-thread however, is that I have a small disappointment to admit. sooooorrrrryyy I know it sounds bizarre, having just been offered the world, but I am gonna say it anyway. Todays anouncements, was not a bomb for the broke-ass indie. Having already been adding around on the gazillion accesories and powerpacks and cheeseplates and so on... i think its fair to say that apart from the fixed lense option (whose price is unknown, and seemingly have some kind of special automation) people are not gonna be ready to shoot for less than 15k... off course I have no idea what the new batteries, plates, soundmodules, evfs and lcd, mini-primes, recording modules and media is gonna add up to... but its gonna be alot more than 3k for 3k....
What I would have considered an absolute BOMB, would be a 1k resolution, s35, 25fps two xlr inputs shooting redcode to cf, with no lego this or that... and NO cables dangling around. but lcd,bateries preamps etc all fitted into a nice ergonomic body available with a nikon or canon mount. 4000$ THAT would be da BOMB!

Now I am gonna have to buy the stinking canon 5d and bitch about h.264 for two years.
 
I really don't understand the argument that today's announcement makes the RED One obsolete. A lot of us speculated that when RED offered a sensor upgrade for the R1 it would be around $10k. RED never said they would upgrade your R1 for free. With this announcement we get a 5k brain that does 5k @ 100fps instead of just a sensor upgrade for $10k when we trade in our R1s. All of the other RED accessories should be compatible. How is this making your investment obsolete?????
 
it doesn't make your investment obsolete, if you can afford an Epic.
 
The "electronic engines" are different between each of these camera models. That means there are format capability differences. For example, the RED ONE has 4K, 3K, 2K, 1080P (soon) and anamorphic format options. It does ramping, time-lapse, has 4 channel 24-bit audio, etc. Scarlet will NOT have the full flexibility of a RED ONE. EPIC has more capability and flexibility than the other two. It is one of the reasons that the Scarlet body is smaller than an EPIC.

Just so you can figure that into your planning.

Scarlet will have limited format options.

RED ONE has many format options.

EPIC has virtually unlimited format options.
 
I have to say, when I first heard about the existence of Epic, I didn't really care. 4k shooting is good enough for me and will be good enough for me for years to come. In fact, the only real complaint I have of my RED camera is that it is so damn heavy. After putting a Nikon lens, LCD, battery and hard drive on it, I have difficulty shooting handheld with the camera for prolonged periods of time. I even considered selling the camera in the future and down grading to the Scarlet at a 2/3 inch chip. Now, I find that the Scarlet will actually outperform the RED One AND be lighter so I should be excited, right? The problem is, the Scarlet will make the RED One cost substantially lower than what I paid for it. The 12% discount doesn't mean much since the RED One will probably lose over half it's value once the Scarlet hits (if I get the Scarlet, I definitely will get rid of my RED One). If the Scarlet did not do as much as the RED One, then I would still be happy I forked over the extra dough for my camera. As it stands, the Scarlet will greatly reduce the price of a RED Camera, and switching to the Scarlet will probably cost RED Owners $5,000 after you figure in lowered resale value. This is guessing that the price of the Scarlet will be about $11,000 for a workable system and the RED One would sell for around $6,000. I already had enough problems scraping together the money to buy RED, to lose $11,500 in value and having to fork over another $5,000 in less than a year just to get a lighter camera is a little hard to take. I bought into the RED system believing that the basic investment in the camera body would be sound. I didn't expect it to get blown out of the water in the time frame of a year. Like a lot of people have said, this announcement is great for people who did not buy recently. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them.
 
The R1 has changed my business life. I'm really happy with my camera.
When I read the new specifics I thought they (red team) were completely mad but after I thought also every innovation has a cost. I truly believe Red won't abandon us R1 owners. I think (and I hope) in a close future it will be the possibility to trade a R1 for a Scarlet, maybe the FF35 one.
 
see my previous answer. Your RED one is not worth a penny less as it's worth $17,500 towards an Epic. If you can't afford one, sell it to someone who can.

Doesn't this make sense to anyone else?

Ben
 
Scarlet will NOT have all the capabilities of a RED ONE. It can't given the size constraints of the boards in the "brain". If you want flexibility and choices... upgrade your RED ONE or upgrade to an EPIC.

Jim
 
Jason Ing said:
The "electronic engines" are different between each of these camera models. That means there are format capability differences. For example, the RED ONE has 4K, 3K, 2K, 1080P (soon) and anamorphic format options. It does ramping, time-lapse, has 4 channel 24-bit audio, etc. Scarlet will NOT have the full flexibility of a RED ONE. EPIC has more capability and flexibility than the other two. It is one of the reasons that the Scarlet body is smaller than an EPIC.

Just so you can figure that into your planning.

Scarlet will have limited format options.

RED ONE has many format options.

EPIC has virtually unlimited format options.
Click to expand...

The question is will those features specific to the RED One compel most people to continue buying the RED One. If I could sell my camera for 14k-15k in a year, great! I can go over and buy a Scarlet that should have all the options I need (Don't need 4 channels of audio, ramping, etc.) and be lighter. I have a feeling that these extra features will not keep up the price of a RED One, though. I know people say I can just use the RED as a trade in at full value for the Epic, but I don't have the money for the upgrade. The only way I would do that is if someone wanted to buy the Epic and was willing to buy the RED One from me at a slight discount. I have a feeling that hundreds of current RED One owners will have the same idea which will drive down the price of the RED One. I also don't know how many will actually fork out the money to get an Epic. Most of us are happy with 4k and will not spend the extra thousands of dollars to get Epic.
 
Brandon said:
it doesn't make your investment obsolete, if you can afford an Epic.
Click to expand...

If you can't afford the $10k to upgrade to an EPIC you probably wouldn't be able to afford the R1 sensor upgrade either. I don't think "making obsolescence obsolete" means free upgrades for eternity.

The main part of a $17,500 RED body is the sensor. I never expected them to offer the sensor upgrade on the R1 for a couple grand. I always expected that the cost of the sensor would be well over half the price of the body.
 
beneditor said:
see my previous answer. Your RED one is not worth a penny less as it's worth $17,500 towards an Epic. If you can't afford one, sell it to someone who can.

Doesn't this make sense to anyone else?

Ben
Click to expand...

I've been advising others to do the same. Seems like the easiest solution for R1 users that can't afford an Epic.
 
facetmedia said:
I've been advising others to do the same. Seems like the easiest solution for R1 users that can't afford an Epic.
Click to expand...

why would they buy a used one from you instead of buying a new one from RED?
 
JT,

Well spoken JT. I'm in exactly the same position with the same opinion. While the RED One has certainly exceeded my expectations from when I put my money down on so long ago at NAB. And I'm unbearably excited about the new cameras, I agree, I don't think the promise of obsoleting obsolescence was entirely kept, at least not how I interpreted it at the time.

Because I felt I could grow with the camera and stay competitive, I bought my camera on a 3 year lease, and planned to pay that back on the same schedule. Now here I am with 2 years left in my lease, no possible way to upgrade to Epic in my current financial condition and staring down the barrel of very few to no rentals for an 'old' Red one. Scary to say the least.
 
Thanks for the clarification Mr. Jannard... boy am I glad I've been saving my pennies. Epic FF35 here I come. The only problem is this Winter 2009 estimate.
 
The "electronic engines" are different between each of these camera models. That means there are format capability differences. For example, the RED ONE has 4K, 3K, 2K, 1080P (soon) and anamorphic format options. It does ramping, time-lapse, has 4 channel 24-bit audio, etc. Scarlet will NOT have the full flexibility of a RED ONE. EPIC has more capability and flexibility than the other two. It is one of the reasons that the Scarlet body is smaller than an EPIC.

Just so you can figure that into your planning.

Scarlet will have limited format options.

RED ONE has many format options.

EPIC has virtually unlimited format options.

Jim
Click to expand...
Just why does this remind me of Canon marketing policies?! It sounds like a choice to limit Scarlet in order to sell EPIC. I am not convinced for now.

To me, it really sounds like ... the party is over and there is anything short of panic over selling or not R1 right now.
 
It's very weird to realize that Jim himself is reading these posts and responding. Hi Jim!!! Thanks for all your hard work.

My wife is going to freak out when I tell her I am upgrading to an epic 35FF. Thanks for ruining my marriage. She's probably going to wish I was back in my ducati phase, that was a cheaper hobby. Anytime you want to ride my ducati monstro, you let me know jim.
 
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