DCP vs HDCAM vs Blu-ray

[JT Thurlow]

It looks like I need to create either a DCP or HDCAM for a festival screening (every other festival we got into accepted Blu-ray).

We're not in the best place financially so a DCP is probably out of range, so I guess we're looking at HDCAM creation (just for this one screening) or asking if Blu-ray is acceptable.

I'm wondering if the difference between HDCAM and Blu-ray/QT is actually noticeable? Also, if there are any huge benefits of DCP over these that would substantiate the expense, probably for a single (though important) screening?

Thanks!

 

[Craig Parkes]

It looks like I need to create either a DCP or HDCAM for a festival screening (every other festival we got into accepted Blu-ray).

We're not in the best place financially so a DCP is probably out of range, so I guess we're looking at HDCAM creation (just for this one screening) or asking if Blu-ray is acceptable.

I'm wondering if the difference between HDCAM and Blu-ray/QT is actually noticeable? Also, if there are any huge benefits of DCP over these that would substantiate the expense, probably for a single (though important) screening?

Thanks!

At this point I think you may find there are a lot of places who will do DCP creation for independents more cheaply than HDCAM-SRs - it's an opensource process, with inexpensive paid software, that was designed to work around hardware that is quite old and all off the shelf.

Meanwhile HDCAM or HDCAM-SR requires you have what was originally a something like a 5 figure piece of equipment, that is still in operation.

Doing a proper QC of the DCP can be expensive - and you don't want to bother with a encryption because of the cost - but just making an unencrypted DCP I would think might be very affordable if you shop around.

 

[Björn Benckert]

check:http://www.thefilmbakery.com/blog/creating-a-feature-film-dcp-using-opendcp

and: http://jonnyelwyn.co.uk/film-video-...ro-fcp-apple-fcp7/how-to-make-a-dcp-for-free/

and:http://www.easydcp.com

 

[Aaron McLane]

HDAM SR and HDCAM are both better looking and more reliable then then a DCP. Everyone in post has a SR deck since it is a still a delivery requirement for all movies.

 

[Michael Winokur]

DCP-O-Matic is the way to go for doing your own authoring. You'll need to have a usb thumb drive reformatted as a linux file system to deliver it on.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I'm wondering if the difference between HDCAM and Blu-ray/QT is actually noticeable? Also, if there are any huge benefits of DCP over these that would substantiate the expense, probably for a single (though important) screening?

Yes, an HDCam (preferably HDCam-SR) tape will be much better than a Blu-ray disc, because the latter is much more compressed.

There are very good companies out there that will create high-quality DCPs for you relatively inexpensively. One I would recommend is SimpleDCP:

http://simpledcp.com/

which I believe only charges about $10/minute for a basic package. If you've got a feature film, spending a grand for a 90-minute film is pretty much chickenfeed. Very often in distributor agreement, the DCP is part of the deliverables that you need to provide. The problem with trying to do the DCP yourself is that you have no way of knowing that it's in the right colorspace, the levels are going to be correct, or how it's going to project in a screening. I have seen things go badly in screenings before.

The other two advantages of going through an experienced company: 1) they've done this before and (one hopes) won't screw it up, and 2) if there are any problems or questions, the company can fix it.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

There may be plenty of HDCAM-SR decks in good sized post facilities, studios and edit bays around the world. That said, festivals are not always well funded operations, nor staffed with technically savvy operatives in my experience. Renting and setting up an HDCAM-SR (BTW, try 6 figures new $125K in 2006) deck, then piping it to a projector that may be designed for an automated server based source rather than SMPTE compliant SDI signaling, etc -VS- plugging a BluRay player into a digital projector via HDMI...

A lot depends on the venue.

Cheers - #19

 

[Sergei Franklin]

OpenDCP is free https://www.opendcp.org
I have made DCP's with open DCP. In Davinci select single clip, DPX RGB 16bit, DCI , 24 fps.
In OpenDCP convert to Jpeg2000 select 2k, 125mb/s, Rec 709, select XYZ transform, do not select DPX log, no resize.
It may take a day to render the JPEG files. (4K at 250mb/s could take a few days).
If your timeline was 23.98 you will need to speed up the sound by 0.1%. You ship;d have a center track.for the surround you can put a empty track of there os no surround. The sound files for each track need to be Wave 24bot 48kHz.
The drive must be formatted as a Linux drive Ext2 (or3) MBR (master boot) partition, I-Node 128. https://www.paragon-software.com has software for Mac and Windows.

 

[JT Thurlow]

Thanks very much for the responses.

We got some quotes back for the DCP - it's in range but the price is painful considering it will be probably only be used for this one screening. Also we need to revise the edit so the DCP will basically be redundant after that.

Am wondering if the audience will really notice the difference between a DCP and a Blu-ray?

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Only if You slap an anotation all over it, huhuh...:biggrin:

 

[Kristin Stewart]

JT, please PM me with the specs of your master file and your location. You'll get an affordable rate for your DCP ;-)

Cheers,

Kristin

 

[Barend Onneweer]

HDAM SR and HDCAM are both better looking and more reliable then than a DCP. Everyone in post has a SR deck since it is a still a delivery requirement for all movies.

HDCAM is 1440x1080 8-bit YUV 4:2:2 with a maximum bitrate of 140Mbps. A jpeg2000 DCP should preserve image quality a whole lot better than that, in resolution, compression ratio and bit-depth.

HDCAM SR is an entirely different beast in terms of image quality and could outperform a 2k DCP.

 

[Sergei Franklin]

If the film is widescreen 2.39 then the BluRay will most likely not fill the screen. It will be about half the screen. So yes the audience will notice.

 

[Peter Arnold]

If the film is widescreen 2.39 then the BluRay will most likely not fill the screen. It will be about half the screen. So yes the audience will notice.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense.

I do DCP's on a weekly basis for our local cinemas so I know a little bit about the process.

A widescreen DCP is 2048 x 858 pixel = 1757184 pixel
A BluRay is 1920 x 1080 pixel = 2073600 pixel (visible portion of a 2.39 widescreen picture without the bars on top and bottom is 1536000 pixel give and take a few)

When projecting a BluRay, the DCP projector will zoom the picture up to fill the whole screen and will show a widescreen picture of 1920 x 800 pixel.

So you loose 64 pixel on each side and 29 pixel on the bottom and the top compared to a regular DCP.

That is not visible.

I did a lot of BluRay presentations in our local cinemas and trust me, the audience NEVER noticed any difference.

It might if:

Only if You slap an anotation all over it, huhuh...:biggrin:

If the cinema has a decent BluRay player, something like an OPPO, you'll see a beautiful pristine picture on the big screen.

Just make sure that you use the highest possible datarate when producing the BluRay.





Peter

 

[Nick Gardner]

I've seen films I've shot projected in theaters from both blueray and DCP. The DCP looked better, but not by a huge margin. Most people wouldn't notice.

Nick

 

[Marc Wielage]

JT, please PM me with the specs of your master file and your location. You'll get an affordable rate for your DCP...

See? I knew there were people out there who could make DCPs affordably.

The big advantage of hiring somebody else to do the DCP for you is, if it gets screwed up, you have somebody to yell at and fix it. If you do it yourself... you can't yell at anybody but the mirror.

I've seen films I've shot projected in theaters from both blueray and DCP. The DCP looked better, but not by a huge margin. Most people wouldn't notice.

I've looked at them, and the increased compression and artifacts from Blu-ray are extremely noticeable, particularly once you go over 10'. I think the average file size for a 90-minute DCP is well over 500GB, and Blu-ray is generally limited at no more than 50GB. Right there, you can see there's 10 times more compression in Blu-ray, and that will create real limitations you can see if you know what to look for.

Blu-rays are also only in 8-bit 4:2:0 color depth, which is not going to compare favorably to 10-bit 444.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Not ever made a 2K, 2D, 90 min. DCP "heavyer" than 200 Gigs (that's with authoring software I'm currently using), and 50 Gigs Blurays...most of them are stuffed with garbage like additional featuras: multiple soundtracks, this cut-that cut, alternate endings, Making of-s...Real feature seldomly exceeds 15 Gigs.
Yes, that's heavily compressed, but it doesn't need to be. :biggrin:

 

[Peter Arnold]

I think the average file size for a 90-minute DCP is well over 500GB, and Blu-ray is generally limited at no more than 50GB. Right there, you can see there's 10 times more compression in Blu-ray, and that will create real limitations you can see if you know what to look for. Blu-rays are also only in 8-bit 4:2:0 color depth, which is not going to compare favorably to 10-bit 444.

I've never seen a feature bigger than 200GB. Period.

You must never forget that a J2K DCP uses a variable bitrate codec.
Intraframe only yes but the files size changes from picture to picture up to a theoretical maximum of 250Mbit/s.
250Mbit/s is 31.25 MB/s. You could play that back from a USB Stick if you want (which works by the way)

So a 90 minutes feature has a theoretical maximum of 90x60 second = 5'400 seconds x 31.25 MB/s = 168.75 GB give and take a few bits and bytes.

The DCP specs do not go higher than this right now.
That may change in the future. But for now that is the worldwide standard.

The new Bond movie 'Spectre' in 4K was 160GB

The new 'STAR WARS' was around 130GB in the 2k 3D version.
I know it because I was present when the file was ingested on two Sony SRX-R320 4K projectors.

The best (by far) DCP's are made by ARRI Munich.
They use compression algorithms that allow them to put a 150 minute feature below 100 GB.

And imho they still look better than most stuff coming from the major US Studios with a much higher datarate.

If you have a trained eye, which most guys around here have i suppose, then yes you might see the difference between a DCP and a BluRay.
But it is definitely not as huge as some people try to make you believe.

And as long as you don't have a direct comparison it's imo negligible.
Most people (99.5% of movie watchers vs. 0.5% movie maker) won't see it.

 

[Brad Allen]

Hey JT,

I realize Kristin has probably already worked out a pretty decent deal for you but if you're still needing help, feel free to give me a PM too and I'll get you a price @ indie rates.

Regarding advantages of DCP over a Blu-ray etc, most people have already covered that, bit-rate, bit depth and colour space are all advantages. Like others have mentioned, the differences to a final audience will probably be pretty minimal though and if it's only for a one off screening, you're probably the only one that can make the call on what's worthwhile price wise.

 

[Brad Allen]

I've never seen a feature bigger than 200GB. Period.

+ 1 to this. I think the only DCP I've heard of being > 200GB's was some of the versions of Avatar that came in around 250GB. But even then, apparently some of the other DCP's of Avatar that went to other countries only came in around 150GB.

I've found the JPEG2000 codec to be amazingly efficient and if it's dealing with scenes with low detail (ie credit rolls), the bit rate will be quite low since it's not needed to preserve image quality.