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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dci Output

M

Mark L. Pederson

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FYI - the newest build of SCRATCH - version 3.5 includes output support for 16 bit TIFF in XYZZ color space per the DCI specification
 
offhollywood said:
FYI - the newest build of SCRATCH - version 3.5 includes output support for 16 bit TIFF in XYZZ color space per the DCI specification
Click to expand...

excellent. DCI output is becoming more and more popular.

DVS also introduced DCI output in several models of clipster and pronto. Cool thing about Clipster DCI is - its JPEG2000 DCI Mastering is realtime.
http://www.dvs.de/

anyone aware if iridias has/will have DCI output as well?
 
What are render speeds on Scratch, and how much more for network rendering if it has it.
 
I'm so excited about Scratch! I'm meeting with our S.A. reseller tomorrow to finalize our order, we should take delivery in two weeks. We're getting a real-time 2K system first, and then a second real-time 4K system (basically just the addition of a Bright Systems FC drive array instead of the SATA RAID of the 2K system). With ver 3.5 supporting this output, I am more confident than ever of making Scratch the centre of our whole post pipeline.

I can't stop spreading the word about Scratch here in S.A. So far, we will be the second company to use Scratch in the country, and as far as I know our first system will be the third in the country.

Filmlight are so desperate to get a Baselight into S.A. they want to offer me a complete Baselight at the same price we are paying for the 4K Scratch. So far with us, Scratch will have 3 systems, Baselight a big fat zero.
 
luki - so do I understand correctly then, that besides just the file format, you can output in the correct DCI spec straight from Scratch, so that if you had a calibrated projector/studio setup and a Scratch suite, that's all you'd need?

So then those files could go to the packaging house?

For those who aren't familiar with the DCI spec - producing the media is just one (important) step - you still have a lot of packaging and authoring to do - this is vaguely analagous, AFAIK, to having MPEG-2 output but still needing to author a DVD - there's several other pieces (including encryption) that need to go into the mix to make a completed DCI package.

-mike
 
MikeCurtis said:
luki - so do I understand correctly then, that besides just the file format, you can output in the correct DCI spec straight from Scratch, so that if you had a calibrated projector/studio setup and a Scratch suite, that's all you'd need?

So then those files could go to the packaging house?

For those who aren't familiar with the DCI spec - producing the media is just one (important) step - you still have a lot of packaging and authoring to do - this is vaguely analagous, AFAIK, to having MPEG-2 output but still needing to author a DVD - there's several other pieces (including encryption) that need to go into the mix to make a completed DCI package.

-mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

Short answer - yep.

Longer answer - I want to be very clear about this. SCRATCH does the DCM (the files) but not the DCDM (the package.)

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
luki said:
Mike,

Short answer - yep.

Longer answer - I want to be very clear about this. SCRATCH does the DCM (the files) but not the DCDM (the package.)

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...

But SCRATCH is as complete a solution as one could hope for. But one could definitely hope for a better price for the 4k version.... How about a reduser special. :innocent: How much would that be?
 
luki said:
Mike,
Longer answer - I want to be very clear about this. SCRATCH does the DCM (the files) but not the DCDM (the package.)
Click to expand...

That would be the DSM (Digital Source Master), not the DCM. In fact, I don't know of anybody using the acronym "DCM." There is DSM (Digital Source Master), DCDM (Digital Cinema Distribution Master), DCP (Digital Cinema Package), and various other equally as obscure names, largely unknown outside the tightly confined circles of the Los Angeles post community.
 
Curran Giddens said:
But SCRATCH is as complete a solution as one could hope for. But one could definitely hope for a better price for the 4k version.... How about a reduser special. :innocent: How much would that be?
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a "4K version." Scratch is a resolution independent software program, there is only one version (with various modules, each of which can be purchased separately - but none of which restrict the resolutions at which you can work). The hardware you use is up to you, although they will help you to put together a package.
 
Exactly, Once you have the software modules you want, the actual real-time resolution capability is limited only by your hardware. The biggest factor is disk throughput. For 2K, you will need 324MB/sec for one stream at 12-bit, and this is possible with a couple of 3ware SATA controllers and an array of SATA drives without breaking the bank. But for one stream of 4K at 12-bit, you need 1312MB/sec, and for that you need a fibre channel array, which will cost substantially more.

You can still conform 4K media from a slower storage subsystem, it just won't be real time. It will however, be a lot less expensive.
 
luki said:
And also in YYZ color space per the Moving Pictures spec.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that spec maintains the proper Subdivisions w/in the Signals?


-Andrew
 
Outputting the DSM is the easy part. In fact for a true indy production its better to output to HDCAM SR.

The DCDM is the missing link and the thing that will cost you as you have to send it out to get it done.

They can make a DCDM from a SR tape, doing it this way at least gives the filmmaker a hard copy at the end of the process.

Until the DCI release the software that makes the DCDM we're forced to work out of house, which is crazy as I'm sure DCDM encoding and encryption is a simple script but the fat cats want control.
 
roryhinds said:
Until the DCI release the software that makes the DCDM we're forced to work out of house, which is crazy as I'm sure DCDM encoding and encryption is a simple script but the fat cats want control.
Click to expand...

The DCI is a consortium of studios that writes and maintains the specification that has been adopted. They do not manufacture software, hardware, or anything else. Mastering systems for digital cinema are sold by a number of vendors (Doremi, DTS, Dolby, Qube Cinema, DVS, and others), some as hardware, some as software, and some as a combination of the two. This has nothing to do with "fat cats" or control or any evil anti competitive secret plot. It has everything to do with conforming to a standard, maintaining quality and security control, and the fact that the market for such a product is very, very small. Besides, what is it that seems to give a lot of people here the idea that they have to own everything, even when they're only capable of turning out one project a year (if that)? If you drive a car, you don't have to own a factory to build it. If you're going to put out a movie every now and then, and probably don't have distribution for it anyway, why would you need to own a digital cinema mastering system?
 
4K Hub said:
Exactly, Once you have the software modules you want, the actual real-time resolution capability is limited only by your hardware. The biggest factor is disk throughput. For 2K, you will need 324MB/sec for one stream at 12-bit, and this is possible with a couple of 3ware SATA controllers and an array of SATA drives without breaking the bank. But for one stream of 4K at 12-bit, you need 1312MB/sec, and for that you need a fibre channel array, which will cost substantially more.

You can still conform 4K media from a slower storage subsystem, it just won't be real time. It will however, be a lot less expensive.
Click to expand...

If Scratch is able to work natively with REDCODE RAW then why is the data rate so high? Is it because you have to render into Uncompressed? Is there a workflow for low budget RED RAW shooters that could be cheaper but still make sense for a post house like yours?

Incidentally are you ready to talk prices yet? :pinch:
 
mmost.. no one said anything about owning the factory.. I just want to get from A to B and the way the DCI is set up it is protecting the fat cats.

They tell us what the spec is but not how to create the Stems and final DCDM.

If I can capture the footage, edit it and output the data why not then should I be able to encoded it and sort the file structure?

4KHub you should really have a look at Baselight it is one of the most comprehensive colouring tools out there... way up there with Luster.
 
roryhinds said:
mmost.. no one said anything about owning the factory.. I just want to get from A to B and the way the DCI is set up it is protecting the fat cats.

They tell us what the spec is but not how to create the Stems and final DCDM.

If I can capture the footage, edit it and output the data why not then should I be able to encoded it and sort the file structure?

4KHub you should really have a look at Baselight it is one of the most comprehensive colouring tools out there... way up there with Luster.
Click to expand...


Would you like cheese with that whine??

Have you looked here:

http://www.dcimovies.com/reference/index.tt2

Since the specs are for interested developers, there is nothing stopping you from hiring a programmer to develop your own tools instead of waiting for a product to hit the market. That's what a number of post houses do.

DCI is set up so that there isn't incompatibility in the distribution end. Last thing a filmmaker wants is to have a DCP that isn't playable in a theater.

It's time to give up this us vs them mentality.

The tools used by the high end and low end is the same in many instances. The only difference being how resourceful you are in solving problems instead of complaining.

I've done vfx work in After Effects on a blue/white iMac that cut with vfx work done on dedicated compositing stations. It was all I had available, and I worked around my limitations.

This stuff isn't that hard, it's all about doing some research and talking to people who may be of help.
 
roryhinds said:
mmost.. no one said anything about owning the factory.. I just want to get from A to B and the way the DCI is set up it is protecting the fat cats.
Click to expand...

You really need to give up this "big rich guys vs. little poor guys" mentality. It's not relevant and it's not true.

They tell us what the spec is but not how to create the Stems and final DCDM.
Click to expand...

Rather than continue to complain and accuse, you really need to educate yourself on this and get your facts straight. The Stem is a film that was shot for the DCI by Allen Daviau that is used as "STandard Evaluation Material" - hence the name - for scanning, compression, and projection evaluation. It has nothing to do with Digital Cinema deliveries. As far as "how" to create a DCDM, it's all spelled out - in great detail - in the DCI spec, which is available online for anyone who wants to download it. The fact that it's complex is not their problem, and it is not their responsibility to simplify it so that non-technical types can understand it. It's a technical document, because it needs to be.

If I can capture the footage, edit it and output the data why not then should I be able to encoded it and sort the file structure?
Click to expand...

You can't capture, edit, and output without software that you didn't write and hardware you didn't invent or build. Creating DCP's is no different. If you buy the hardware and software from one of the vendors I mentioned previously, you too can create DCPs. What you're really saying here is that you want all of this essentially for free. It doesn't work that way with editing equipment, and it doesn't work that way with this.
 
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