Davinci Resolve 16 Beta

[M Most]

Despite what you may think, in the real world, no professional editor working on the real network show, a feature or a commercial etc would be using RAW images to edit with regardless of the power of their system. That is why the transcoded material is being delivered to the editors by DITs in the professional world.

In the US, there are very few network shows or features (particularly studio level features) that have editorial files made by the DIT. Most of them have a dailies vendor do that, in part because of the complexity of deliverables for a number of studios, in part to have a "real" colorist looking at the material and massaging it, in part to ensure proper archiving, and in part to get uploads to various vendors done in a reasonable time frame. The situation is different in other parts of the world, but in the US and Canada, that is the general approach.

And finally, based on your statement, please give me ONE example of Linux based NLE that is alive today? And, no, I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons. No, I mean NLE, that is used to do some real work.

If you're talking about what we used to call "offline" editing, I agree (although as I recall Lightworks is available on Linux - not that most users of Lightworks are on that platform...). But if you're talking about conform and finishing, I would say that Flame Premium and Resolve both qualify (although admittedly a lot of Resolve seats are on Windows and Mac platforms).

 

[jake blackstone]

In the US, there are very few network shows or features (particularly studio level features) that have editorial files made by the DIT. Most of them have a dailies vendor do that, in part because of the complexity of deliverables for a number of studios, in part to have a "real" colorist looking at the material and massaging it, in part to ensure proper archiving, and in part to get uploads to various vendors done in a reasonable time frame. The situation is different in other parts of the world, but in the US and Canada, that is the general approach.

Regardless of where files come from, that doesn't change the fact, that the editing is never done using camera files. That was the gist of my point.

If you're talking about what we used to call "offline" editing, I agree (although as I recall Lightworks is available on Linux - not that most users of Lightworks are on that platform...). But if you're talking about conform and finishing, I would say that Flame Premium and Resolve both qualify (although admittedly a lot of Resolve seats are on Windows and Mac platforms).

No Mike.
I was responding to this statement :
Microsoft didn't go bankrupt and many NLE's that didn't support ProRes encoding under microsoft windows or linux for the last 12 years are still alive"
As you can imagine, I'm perfectly aware of Flame. Misha was specifically talking about NLE, which Flame really isn't. If you consider Flame an editor, then Nuke Studio should be included as well. And Baselight along with Mistika. Well, you see my point.
Also, I'm not aware of any editors using Linux Resolve for NLE-style editing. Do you?
And I specifically mentioned in my post "I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons" which would cover Lightworks as well.
The bottom line, NLE on Linux, for all practical purposes, doesn't exist.
And all this still doesn't change the fact, that Resolve doesn't support ProresRAW

 

[Misha Engel]

Despite what you may think, in the real world, no professional editor working on the real network show, a feature or a commercial etc would be using RAW images to edit with regardless of the power of their system. That is why the transcoded material is being delivered to the editors by DITs in the professional world.

Sure why would you use 16 bits when you can also use backed in colors upto 12 bits when color correction, who cares about color.

So, stop with this Puget Systems nonsense, it has no bearings on anything. I don't care what Adobe did to Apple or why Apple allowed Adobe to write Prores on Windows, the true fact of the matter, as of now, Resolve is the ONLY software platform that is not allowed to write Prores on Windows. All the rest, at least all color grading/editing/VFX Windows-based apps can write Prores- Digital Vision, Mistika, Assimialate, MTI, Colorfront, Adobe and many others.

Yep, BMD, AVID, VEGAS, Lightworks, and many others don't.
It's Apples choice to ask money for ProRes where DNx and Cineform are free to use.

You keep moving goal posts and then you asking why that happened, when you decided to bring in R3D, ARRIRAW and OCN. Or it wasn't you?

It was about the RAW codecs. You know, 12 bits ProResRAW supported by the big brand camera's used in H/N/Bollywood productions vs. consumer grade 16 bits R3D, ARRIRAW, X-OCN for wedding capturing.

The bottom line, anyone considering sticking with Resolve may want to look at the possibility, that Resolve may well be the only platform, that may not be able to write Prores on Windows and even more importantly, not being able to read and write ProresRAW on any of their platforms.

Adobe did it 12 years without encoding ProRes on Windows and only implemented in 2019. AVID is still not encoding to ProRes.
Yes I know that ProResRAW is the main RAW codec supported by the big brand camera's used in H/N/Bollywood productions, how could ARRI, RED and Sony(pro) have missed it.
To my knowledge no one is encoding ProResRAW in NLE's, not even Apple's FCPX.

And finally, based on your statement, please give me ONE example of Linux based NLE that is alive today? And, no, I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons. No, I mean NLE, that is used to do some real work.

Davinci Resolve and Lightworks.

 

[M Most]

Davinci Resolve and Lightworks.

Although it's really, really difficult for me to do this, I'm going to actually have to agree with Jake here. Although Resolve on Linux is used for conforming and finishing, if we're talking about "creative" editing, the vast majority of people using Resolve for that are likely running it on Windows or the Mac. As for Lightworks, I would say the same caveat would apply (nonwithstanding Jake's contention that LW is "an open source thingy", which I don't agree with).

Now, that said, for me, the term "NLE" does not refer only to offline editing programs. A conform and finishing package, like Flame Premium, or for that matter Resolve, is just as much a non-linear editor as Avid or Premiere Pro are. So depending on your interpretation of the terminology, other views are possible....

 

[jake blackstone]

It's funny how easy any discussion can get sidetracked. If anyone wants to edit using Lightworks, Flame or Resolve using RAW files, fine, what do I care? That's not the point of discussion here.
My original point was and still is, Resolve doesn't support Prores RAW and that CAN become a BIG problem for small indy users, that are depending on Resolve, if Prores RAW goes mainstream like the Prores now. All eyes are on ARRI now. If ARRI decides, that Prores RAW is superior to the good 'ole Prores, well...

 

[jake blackstone]

AVID is still not encoding to ProRes.

Would you like to change your answer the same way when you said about Adobe not being able to do it on Windows?
Apple ProRes Authorized Products
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321

 

[jake blackstone]

To my knowledge no one is encoding ProResRAW in NLE's, not even Apple's FCPX.

You clearly missing the whole point of ProresRAW.
So, once more Misha- acquisition codec vs deliverable codec.
Would you expect any editing platform to export final edit as R3D or ARRIRAW?
The same thing...

 

[Misha Engel]

Would you like to change your answer the same way when you said about Adobe not being able to do it on Windows?
Apple ProRes Authorized Products
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321

Well no resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/attach/Avid_Supported_Video_File_Formats.pdf
It's Mac only just like Davinci Resolve and Adobe until CC2019.

Also no mention of AVID supporting ProResRAW in anyway.

 

[Misha Engel]

You clearly missing the whole point of ProresRAW.
So, once more Misha- acquisition codec vs deliverable codec.
Would you expect any editing platform to export final edit as R3D or ARRIRAW?
The same thing...

No I don't, but you did

Despite what you may think, in the real world, no professional editor working on the real network show, a feature or a commercial etc would be using RAW images to edit with regardless of the power of their system. That is why the transcoded material is being delivered to the editors by DITs in the professional world. So, stop with this Puget Systems nonsense, it has no bearings on anything. I don't care what Adobe did to Apple or why Apple allowed Adobe to write Prores on Windows, the true fact of the matter, as of now, Resolve is the ONLY software platform that is not allowed to write Prores on Windows. All the rest, at least all color grading/editing/VFX Windows-based apps can write Prores- Digital Vision, Mistika, Assimialate, MTI, Colorfront, Adobe and many others.
You keep moving goal posts and then you asking why that happened, when you decided to bring in R3D, ARRIRAW and OCN. Or it wasn't you?
The bottom line, anyone considering sticking with Resolve may want to look at the possibility, that Resolve may well be the only platform, that may not be able to write Prores on Windows and even more importantly, not being able to read and write ProresRAW on any of their platforms.
And finally, based on your statement, please give me ONE example of Linux based NLE that is alive today? And, no, I don't mean some open source thingy, that someone keeping it alive in their spare time for some nostalgic reasons. No, I mean NLE, that is used to do some real work.

The non distructive editing in RAW and export to something else(DPX, EXR, DNx, Cineform, etc..) is a nice feature of Resolve and probable more NLE's.

 

[Misha Engel]

It's funny how easy any discussion can get sidetracked. If anyone wants to edit using Lightworks, Flame or Resolve using RAW files, fine, what do I care? That's not the point of discussion here.
My original point was and still is, Resolve doesn't support Prores RAW and that CAN become a BIG problem for small indy users, that are depending on Resolve

Isn't that valid for any codec not supported by an NLE.
FCPX is famous for not supporting codecs (DNx, ARRIRAW, X-OCN, BRAW) and they are still around.

, if Prores RAW goes mainstream like the Prores now. All eyes are on ARRI now. If ARRI decides, that Prores RAW is superior to the good 'ole Prores, well...

With your type of workflow people can't edit RAW, so they first have to transcode ProResRAW to ProRes(something) before they can start editing.
I really don't see the benefit of 12 bits ProResRAW through an external recorder over 16 bits ARRIRAW with CFast or Codex.

 

[jake blackstone]

Isn't that valid for any codec not supported by an NLE.
FCPX is famous for not supporting codecs (DNx, ARRIRAW, X-OCN, BRAW) and they are still around.

Funny, now you're confusing editing with color grading...

With your type of workflow people can't edit RAW, so they first have to transcode ProResRAW to ProRes(something) before they can start editing.
I really don't see the benefit of 12 bits ProResRAW through an external recorder over 16 bits ARRIRAW with CFast or Codex.

Please read Mike's post above, if you can't understand the reasoning behind transcoding.
Hint, you normally don't do creative editing using acquisition codecs...
I think, once you understand the concept of offline editing- online finishing, we can have a more productive conversation...

 

[jake blackstone]

The non distructive editing in RAW and export to something else(DPX, EXR, DNx, Cineform, etc..) is a nice feature of Resolve and probable more NLE's.

Seriously? You're back to advocating editing using RAW files??? And what is a "non distructive editing"??? ))
Anyway, if you have a valid point to make about Prores RAW and Resolve (this is a Resolve 16 thread after all), I'm all ears, otherwise I'm not interested in participating in this pointless conversation...

 

[Misha Engel]

Although it's really, really difficult for me to do this, I'm going to actually have to agree with Jake here. Although Resolve on Linux is used for conforming and finishing, if we're talking about "creative" editing, the vast majority of people using Resolve for that are likely running it on Windows or the Mac. As for Lightworks, I would say the same caveat would apply (nonwithstanding Jake's contention that LW is "an open source thingy", which I don't agree with).

Now, that said, for me, the term "NLE" does not refer only to offline editing programs. A conform and finishing package, like Flame Premium, or for that matter Resolve, is just as much a non-linear editor as Avid or Premiere Pro are. So depending on your interpretation of the terminology, other views are possible....

Resolve on Linux works very good on systems with NUMA.
Windows is not NUMA aware when you go higher than 2 socket.
The Linux version also supports more GPU's than the Mac and Windows versions.
And with the Advance Panel License Dongle under Linux you can export to ProRes.

 

[Misha Engel]

Funny, now you're confusing editing with color grading...

Well no, I can import DNx, ARRIRAW, X-OCN, BRAW in Adobe or Resolve and start editing, I can't do that with FCPX because FCPX can't import those codecs.
And you can also color grade with those NLE's.

Please read Mike's post above, if you can't understand the reasoning behind transcoding.
I think, once you understand the concept of offline editing- online finishing, we can continue this conversation...

I have read that and that has been valid for a long time to make dalies with DNx, Cineform or ProRes, but it's time to move on Kodak film isn't what it used to be.

These days however hard and software is getting better, you can review the RAW-files on site with programs like Davinci Resolve (even 8k.R3D files can be reviewed on a laptop these days in realtime 1/2 res).

 

[rand thompson]

Davinci Resolve 16 Object Removal VS Mocha Pro





By Aram K

Davinci Resolve 16 Object Removal VS Mocha Pro
► PLEASE SUBSCRIBE !!! https://bit.ly/2zXF4m0

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Can you zoom the upper timeline in the cut page? Its not so useful when you have a few minutes as the clips gets so tiny. Will have a better look at it tonight but at the first glance i did not se any zoom. I wanted dual timelines so its a big feature for me. But i like to be able to set both timelines zoom level.

 

[Misha Engel]

Seriously? You're back to advocating editing using RAW files??? And what is a "non distructive editing"??? ))

REDCODE allows for non-destructive editing and stores the original material without modifying or requiring a duplicate copy of the material. This makes grading fully reversible, maximizes image quality, and reduces storage requirements. This non-destructive editing is fully supported by all the major post-production software packages such as Adobe, Apple, Avid, Resolve, etc.
Same is valid for any other type of RAW or other codec.

https://www.red.com/red-tech/redcode-raw

Anyway, if you have a valid point to make about Prores RAW and Resolve (this is a Resolve 16 thread after all), I'm all ears, otherwise I'm not interested in participating in this pointless conversation...

Yep, for the moment Resolve is not going to support ProResRAW, for whatever reason.
And it worked out quite well for BMD, looking at the sales numbers and backorders for the UMP(G2) and Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K.
With a BRAW camera you got Davinci Resolve Studio for free, which runs under Windows, Linux or MacOS. For ProResRAW you additionally had to buy an Atomos Recorder and were forced to use an Apple computer and FCPX for the past year. The indies must have been really happy with spending all that extra money.

 

[rand thompson]

CUT page vs. EDIT page - DaVinci Resolve 16



By Learn Color Grading

 

[rand thompson]

First Impression and thoughts about DaVinci Resolve 16 Cut Page




By JayAreTV

Rambling about how I don't understand the cut page. Do you feel the cut page is going to speed up your workflow?

 

[rand thompson]

Davinci Resolve 16 is HERE & EVEN BETTER!! | A First Look



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