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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Davinci Resolve 12 Color Managed Settings

Steve Sherrick

Steve Sherrick

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Introduced in V12 is the new YRGB Color Managed setting. I'm trying to experiment with this and understand how RED footage is best integrated with the Input, Timeline and Output settings. Has anyone used this yet? Thoughts? The current project I'm playing around with is Red One MX and Epic MX footage.

And Graeme if you happen to be perusing, your thoughts are always valued on this subject matter.
 
I love the whole thing... but why does it make all my computers cook !

Fans go on flat our every time I use it. Whats with the GPU over load. ? Bloody thing is so processor intensive even just editing with it.

Till they fix that problem.. I'm not touching it again.
 
almost like Jack ..
but, in output, sometimes I put on bypass, then create a good lut3d and apply that.


Currently I have not tried Aces ... but one day I will try '.
 
luigivaltulini said:
almost like Jack ..
but, in output, sometimes I put on bypass, then create a good lut3d and apply that.


Currently I have not tried Aces ... but one day I will try '.
Click to expand...

RCS (Resolve color spaces) is ACES. It's BMD attempt to emulate the idea, that was pioneered and is used by FilmLight in Truelight Color Spaces. But they are both based on ACES.
 
Mark Toia said:
I love the whole thing... but why does it make all my computers cook !

Fans go on flat our every time I use it. Whats with the GPU over load. ? Bloody thing is so processor intensive even just editing with it.

Till they fix that problem.. I'm not touching it again.
Click to expand...
RCS is based on ACES. ACES is relying on transforms instead of LUTs. Transforms are much more computationally intensive, than using LUTs. Unfortunately, there is nothing to fix...
 
jake blackstone said:
I like to use Cineon Film Log as input, Log-C as working space, but you can try Cineon Film Log as well and various Rec-709 flavors on the Output for the video deliverables. Red images are fully Cineon and ACES compliant.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info Jake! Do you feel you are able to achieve better results with this workflow than the workflows you have used in the past with Red footage? As I understand it, the advantages would be avoiding some of the pitfalls of LUTs such as clipping and being able to change putput for example to do a trim pass for a different deliverable. I'm still early on in my testing so don't have a lot to go on yet.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Introduced in V12 is the new YRGB Color Managed setting. I'm trying to experiment with this and understand how RED footage is best integrated with the Input, Timeline and Output settings. Has anyone used this yet? Thoughts? The current project I'm playing around with is Red One MX and Epic MX footage.

And Graeme if you happen to be perusing, your thoughts are always valued on this subject matter.
Click to expand...

The YRGB setting simply allows the colorist to see the footage in the Timeline with the original color space contained in the source footage. In other words, DR doesn't add anything to the look of the source footage until the colorist start making changes in the Color Page. We can see this setting as "flat" in respect to the original source color space. It is not a new introduction to DR12. It has been the default setting since DR9, probably previous to it, if I well remember.
 
Willian Aleman said:
The YRGB setting simply allows the colorist to see the footage in the Timeline with the original color space contained in the source footage. In other words, DR doesn't add anything to the look of the source footage until the colorist start making changes in the Color Page. We can see this setting as "flat" in respect to the original source color space. It is not a new introduction to DR12. It has been the default setting since DR9, probably previous to it, if I well remember.
Click to expand...
Will, are you talking about the YRGB Color Managed setting? Where you choose an input, timeline, and output parameter under the Color settings? This has only been introduced in V12. But yes, YRGB has been around for a while.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Will, are you talking about the YRGB Color Managed setting? Where you choose an input, timeline, and output parameter under the Color settings? This has only been introduced in V12. But yes, YRGB has been around for a while.
Click to expand...

Oh No. I'm referring to the Master Project Settings, Color Science: Davinci: YRGB. Then you might be right in reference to the time introduction of this feature. Thanks for the info. However, the Color Management Setting I/O in mind DR version I have is grayed out. I'm going to look into why it's not an option in the I/O of Color Management Settings and the copy I have of DR12.1 Studio. I'm currently using Dragon 6K footage too. But I suppose it works as a flat starting point too. I'll let you know about it when I find the way to make it available in my system.
 
where you would selected YRGB in Master Settings there is another selection just below that called YRGB Color Managed. Select that and then in Color settings you should see options become available.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
where you would selected YRGB in Master Settings there is another selection just below that called YRGB Color Managed. Select that and then in Color settings you should see options become available.
Click to expand...

Got it. Thanks. A better way to use this feature, Color Management, is when using footage generated by different camera formats. In this situation individual color space can be applied to a group of clips by holding down the selected clips and apply the corresponding input or output instead of applying a general setting from the Master Setting.

A final question, are you sure you are using YRGB and not sRGB? Because the YRGB doesn't appear in any of my options around Color Management feature.

By the way. sRGB is an extension of Rec.709, which retains more information than Rec.709. The Dragon footage look nice, although, I would use this setting only for on-set daily in a rough time, not in post.
 
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Steve Sherrick said:
Thanks for the info Jake! Do you feel you are able to achieve better results with this workflow than the workflows you have used in the past with Red footage? As I understand it, the advantages would be avoiding some of the pitfalls of LUTs such as clipping and being able to change putput for example to do a trim pass for a different deliverable. I'm still early on in my testing so don't have a lot to go on yet.
Click to expand...

This is a first iteration of the new color science in Resolve. In a way, it is still very much in it's infancy. Baselight has a much more robust system, even in BLE and there I do find better results, because I prefer the ARRI wide gamut color space with Photometric DRT instead of, say, traditional ACES. I happened to like ARRI wide gamut color space, as it kind of emulates an Arri look from get go instead of ACES look or Sony or Canon look etc. And yes, deliverables it's where this color workflow really shines. You can use Rec-709 display and then just do a P3 deliverable from the same timeline. And not having to use multitudes of LUTs for different cameras in the same timeline is a true blessing. With Baselight you just declare the working color space and Baselight completely takes care of the rest. It's truly remarkable. you can try is with BLE or Daylight.
 
jake blackstone said:
This is a first iteration of the new color science in Resolve. In a way, it is still very much in it's infancy. Baselight has a much more robust system, even in BLE and there I do find better results, because I prefer the ARRI wide gamut color space with Photometric DRT instead of, say, traditional ACES. I happened to like ARRI wide gamut color space, as it kind of emulates an Arri look from get go instead of ACES look or Sony or Canon look etc. And yes, deliverables it's where this color workflow really shines. You can use Rec-709 display and then just do a P3 deliverable from the same timeline. And not having to use multitudes of LUTs for different cameras in the same timeline is a true blessing. With Baselight you just declare the working color space and Baselight completely takes care of the rest. It's truly remarkable. you can try is with BLE or Daylight.
Click to expand...

+1


i have two shows in RCM currently - one is a feature shot on Epic, input is locked to linear so raw settings therre are ignored, i'm using CineonLog as my working space for this show, the other project is a series shot on Alexa to ProRez, and i'm using ArrilogC input and working space

in both cases i'm getting to a decent first pass very quickly

totaly agree that Baselight's implemenatation is light years ahead tho, but as rough around the edges as the Resolve's implemenation is, i canot see any reason to continue working in YRGB if the project calls for mutiple deliverable targets
 
I have been playing with the color managed space today, and it definitely doesn't feel finished. I don't feel like i can find the right setting for RED footage. Obviously, you want to use linear as the input, and Davinci does great job of decoding R3D to proper linear space for ACES. I have graded in ACES mode for shows that have had multiple different cameras rolling and it has worked out really well.

For the timeline space, Right now I have found ARRI LogC to be the closet to RedLogFilm, But it is slightly more Magenta and underexposed. Cineon Film Gamma is the proper exposure but very green.

For the output space, obviously I would be working on REC709. The issue is though the REC709 output LUT sucks. All 3 of the options, hard clip any highlights that hold in RedLogFilm or RED's RedGammas. It also doesn't seem to be doing this in ACES. The Aces ODT seems to hold the highlight information much better.

Right now for color managed projects with more than one camera or multiple colorspace deliverables, I will be sticking with ACES.
 
Matthew;

in my testing i have seen the 709 output being accurate, as in when i switch the mon to P3, and the ouput to P3, i see the same (but darker) image... and same with swithcing to XYZ on a christe projector

so yea, the output is display refrenced, it has to be, or all other outputs will be comprmised, negateing the reason to use it in the first place - and that's being charitable...

No issues here with the Epic footage, small tweaks with exposure / contrast / pivot got me to pretty much where i got to in YRGB/RFL/Dragonolor2, but much faster to get there as the starting point is so much closer

no green offset atall here, skintones are just great without me touching anything, and no magenta offset to be seen in ArrilogC at my end either... don't know what's going on there, but it's not reproducable here

i have avoided ACES in Reslove as there's been some funkyness and non-linear responce with the contrast knob, and that a key piece of how i work, i have tended to use Nucoda or Baselight and leave Resolve to be what it is... a grownup video gradeing system that has minimal log / filmstyle gradeing tools on offer.

i am finding that the responce with the log tools is usefull in RCM... i do not really use lift/gamma/gain or hue off-sets much, usulay not untill i do a final pass for small tweaks
 
Hey Dermot

Weird that I am seeing the highlights clip harder and uglier on the 709 presets. I am working on a FSI CM250 calibrated in house with a spectra and color filter prob, so I know my display hits reference. I am at home now, but I will take some screengrabs and post what I am seeing in the morning.

In regards to the tint I was talking about, I only see that when I set the timeline and output color spaces the same. So The timeline and Output space would be both set to either LogC or Cineon. I would not use this workflow for grading, but I would use it to send plates to VFX, so the tinting is a issue. But I suppose if I am going to use a color managed setup like this, I might be sending linear EXR to VFX.
 
So this is what I am talking about.

Look at the Resolve 709 output, it shouldn't clip or saturate the highlights this hard.

rcm.jpg


It doesn't seem like is going to make for an easier starting point right now on RED files. Black magic also needs to give us a LOG output that better matches RLF for VFX workflows.

Here is another example.

cork.jpg


You can download the 1080p JPEGS from here

DOWNLOAD ZIP
 
I'm getting really similar results to Matthew. I'm going to stick to grading without ACES / RCM until I have a better understanding and need for it.
 
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