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Dalsa's dream fades to black
- Thread starter Irmeli R
- Start date
Andrew McCarrick
Well-known member
Film Recorders aren't going to exist in 10-15 years.... doesn't really matter. Their primary business will be lighting within 10 years. I'll never buy anything other than Arri lights (and kinoflow). Their camera division will move all digital, but be on the back burner compared to their lighting division. I really think the first camera company to get 3-CCD 4k cameras will be the leading company in the industry.
I am not sure. I know, what you want to say and ARRI behaved a little bit like a dinosaur. But to say "ARRI has already lost the game" is little bit to much from my point of view. Anyway we will see.
As you saw in my other posting, it is not the quesion of building cheap bodies / CMOS-Chips anymore. That game is over! So the competitor will do the same soon. All the belgium CMOS-Chip industry will try to sell as much as they can for cheaper prices. But the workflow, a good and payable working workflow with fine SDK's will be the future answer on who will be in the leading position. Good for me as costumer. Compition is good from my point of view. :sarcasm:
Mark Pugh
Well-known member
Um... some fairly good lenses too.
Andrew McCarrick
Well-known member
You sing it..And who was working on that kind of Camera? (Da....-) :w00t:
Actually, Dalsa's cameras weren't 3-CCD, there were 1-CCD; Because of the desire to use the PL mount. All film lenses are designed to focus on a single plane not a prism. 3-CCD 4k would need new lenses made.
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Pawel Achtel
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No, because this 3-CCD cameras require 2/3" chips and a prism design - both limiting performance considerably. Single imager is certainly the way forward.
Sure "were", but know-how Dalsa meets know-how ARRI = Violá..
Do not get me wrong, I own a REDONE an I love it, but I do not like to see the things black and white. :w00t:
JanneJansson
Well-known member
>
Cool cam
Looks like 4 sata drives mag, real viewfinder with mirror, some lemo connectors and a durable camerabody.
Lauri Kettunen
Well-known member
If we speak of other companies as well, what do you guys think of SI? They have a great camera -if Red One was not there. On another forum somebody said the Red brains are just the same idea as SI mini head, which is not completely out of truth, although the obvious difference is SI mini head versus Red's line of seven (or eight) brains.
Still, I've had a lot of sympathy for the guys at SI. Technically nice innovation and work but not rewarded by a large market.
Still, I've had a lot of sympathy for the guys at SI. Technically nice innovation and work but not rewarded by a large market.
Andrew McCarrick
Well-known member
You can make a 3-CCD camera any sensor (chip) size, the limitation is in the prism, by limiting your use of lenses to only a 35mm lens made for a prism camera (currently none exist). If you make prism friendly 35mm lenses and 35mm sensors on a prism block... You have working 35mm 4k 3-CCD camera.
Andrew McCarrick
Well-known member
I was thinking something similar. I was thinking that Scarlet would be the SI Mini, and the Epic would be the bigger SI camera. Which could still be done... just make a scarlet brain slide into the larger (more processing) Epic extension brain. FF35 Scarlet slides into FF35 Epic, ect. Purchase the FF35 Epic get both the extension (Epic) and FF35 Scarlet.
Lauri Kettunen
Well-known member
Good point. However, one should take into account the volume of electronics is highly dependent on the number of units produced. Red One is in my understanding a FPGA design. Guess Red has managed to freeze the main components of the design and thus they can go to the next level of on-chip realization.
I think Cineform is coming out with an on-chip solution, and it's likely the next SI will have such a chip. Then the show box implementation will be replaced with something much smaller.
Priyesh P.
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wrong place..and if you don't want an optical viewfinder nor uncompressed images you get a much better deal with a red one or a scarlet
so where`s the right place?
you need a forum dude...
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- #36
GlennChan
Banned
Well one might also say that what people think they want and what they actually want are sometimes two different things.
Jonathan Smiles
Well-known member
Dalsa Origin - 4K CCD Bayer Pattern, outputting uncompressed 4K RAW, optical viewfinder.
ARRI D-21 - 3K CMOS Bayer Pattern, outputting uncompressed 1080p or ARRIRAW uncompressed 3K RAW, optical viewfinder.
Uncompressed recorders are Codex or STwo.
All the ARRI-D20s have been upgraded to D-21.
Patrick Tresch
Well-known member
chuckle..no way. i'm glad enough jarred did not kick me out of this forum yet
Even so... i loved the design (à la Aaton...) wich looks less like a wargame tool (à la RED EPIC).
Patrick.
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- #39
The lenses are Zeiss.
The D20/21 was a Fraunhoefer design.
Dalsa's technology is 6 years old and a dinosaur. Look at how big it is. Even the smaller camera is a about the size of a boom box.
Arri waited too long to develop their own cameras and then let someone else do it for them and now they're too far behind.
Panavision did the same thing with Sony and then Sony turns around and screws them with the F35 and F23. Again, they didn't invenst in doing their own technology when they should have.
David Mullen ASC
Moderator
Sony didn't "screw" Panavision -- they developed the Genesis together (Sony sensor and SRW1 recorder) and Sony made a deal to delay using the same technology in their F35 for a couple of years, which they did. And Panavision owns Plus-8 Video, which rents out F23's and soon, F35's.
Most camera companies have to farm outside for things like sensor technology anyway (in fact, the sensor was the only thing that Dalsa could provide for itself...)
As for the ARRI D20/21, yes, it was a bit of a science experiment, but I'm sure ARRI will now apply what they learned on a more serious digital cine camera. I hear unofficial rumors of one in development, something like a "D50" or something. Now that Dalsa is gone, for people who want a traditional optical viewfinder camera with mechanical shutter, but with a digital sensor, it's probably ARRI that you should place your bets on.
I find it odd to make claims that Panavision, Sony, Dalsa, ARRI, are all "behind" when they, in some ways, were ahead of RED just a few years ago. Someone is always ahead or behind and then ahead again. Fuji made the first high speed motion picture color neg, followed a year later by Kodak, then Fuji made the first 500T stock, followed by Kodak, Agfa made the first T-grain stock, followed by Kodak, but now Kodak is ahead again of Fuji with their dual T-grain whatever technology, Agfa stopped making motion picture neg, etc.
RED benefitted from the pioneering work of others, and they incorporate outside technology, and others will take advantage of RED's developments, etc. I wouldn't write-off the competition by any means -- RED clearly hasn't.
Most camera companies have to farm outside for things like sensor technology anyway (in fact, the sensor was the only thing that Dalsa could provide for itself...)
As for the ARRI D20/21, yes, it was a bit of a science experiment, but I'm sure ARRI will now apply what they learned on a more serious digital cine camera. I hear unofficial rumors of one in development, something like a "D50" or something. Now that Dalsa is gone, for people who want a traditional optical viewfinder camera with mechanical shutter, but with a digital sensor, it's probably ARRI that you should place your bets on.
I find it odd to make claims that Panavision, Sony, Dalsa, ARRI, are all "behind" when they, in some ways, were ahead of RED just a few years ago. Someone is always ahead or behind and then ahead again. Fuji made the first high speed motion picture color neg, followed a year later by Kodak, then Fuji made the first 500T stock, followed by Kodak, Agfa made the first T-grain stock, followed by Kodak, but now Kodak is ahead again of Fuji with their dual T-grain whatever technology, Agfa stopped making motion picture neg, etc.
RED benefitted from the pioneering work of others, and they incorporate outside technology, and others will take advantage of RED's developments, etc. I wouldn't write-off the competition by any means -- RED clearly hasn't.