da Vinci Systems: RED Raw Color Grading

[David Oakes]

da Vinci's Digital PowerHouse is a software, and a bundled hardware and software solution. Both solutions enable colorists to grade 4096 x 2048 12bit native RED RAW files at a range of speeds and resolutions.

The da Vinci RED Raw solution enables colorists to load RED files onto a SAN, and immediately begin grading the complete exposure and bit depth range as captured by the camera.

Other systems leave a portion of color behind during conversion, limiting grading to a narrower range of color and density. With the da Vinci RED solution, colorists have access to the full value of the captured digital
images to produce a higher-quality look.

DIGITAL FILMX (DP-0)

Digital FilmX, da Vinci's RED SDK-embedded software, drives RED RAW color grading on the R-series from quarter-resolution at 24fps to half-resolution at 16fps. Digtal FilmX also will control future digital camera image RAW decoding and color grading.

Digital Powerhouse with one processing server (DP-1) coupled with Digital FilmX accelerates decoding at higher resolutions on the R-300 through R-4K series with infiniband backbones, producing up to half-resolution grading at 24fps. DP-1 also can be operated on the Resolve RT and DI.

Digital Powerhouse with two processing servers (DP-2) has the same features as DP-1, while delivering much faster decode speeds on the R-250x, R-300 series, R-3D. On the R-4K, the results are full-resolution, 4k files that are color graded at 24fps in real time.

Two facilities have successfully beta tested DP-0 and DP-1, and the RED Raw grading solution will be available in the soon-to-be released Resolve 6.2.

More information is available at www.davsys.com.

 

[Corrado Silveri]

Hats off.

Any bells ringing in Newbury?

 

[michael zaletel]

Pricing information? Special Pricing for Red Users?

-michael zaletel
(shooter)

 

[C_Skaff]

I just finished a music video on my Resolve RT with DP0.
I was realy surprised that it went so smooth. Loaded all the R3Ds in the mediapool,an offline ref & the EDL. It matched 100%
Had the job conformed, graded and deliverd as a HD-QT all within 6hrs.
The next day the director had to re-edit. Sent a new edl with the clips he needed and I had that deliverd after 5min. That realy amazed him that it was so easy and fast.

 

[David Oakes]

Pricing.

Pricing.

Depends on the system purchased. The software version will be available at no charge with the upcoming release of Resolve 6.2. The hardware (DP-1 and DP-2) is an upgrade.

 

[C_Skaff]

Michael... I can give you a good price.
But you have to come to Sweden for the grading

 

[M Most]

Pricing information? Special Pricing for Red Users?

I have to state what should be somewhat obvious to those familiar with DaVinci's systems. If you are asking such a question, you're most likely not a potential customer. DaVinci makes full fledged, high end tools for the professional finishing world. Its systems are, for the most part, sold to facilities, not to individuals, especially individuals who are not primarily in the color correction and finishing business. These are not software products that run on your Mac Book Pro. They are complete systems intended for professional use, and are priced accordingly.

Not to mention that anyone who is a likely customer would probably know to contact DaVinci directly for such information, and not to ask things like "is there special pricing for Red users." This is not an insult, so please don't take it as such. But it's very similar to someone asking if there is a special discount to RedUser members for a Quantel Pablo (which goes out the door for about $400,000).

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Other?

Other?

If you are asking such a question, you're most likely not a potential customer.

My system holds whatever 12bit data REDCINE can put out in a TIF file, does REDCINE drop some of the R3D 12bit data?

 

[Peter Chamberlain]

The key with the da Vinci Resolve solution is we maintain the full 12 bits the r3d files offer for the RED portion of the processing and then for the grading we use 32 bit float, and all in realtime with the appropriate hardware, (even up to 4K) which as described above is available as a complete system from da Vinci. You may note; some systems id the market can play back a preview of the r3d or .mov in realtime, few can do this at full resolution with full de-bayer and still offer 15+ levels of grading correction at the same time. In some configs, there is even no need to render if you wish to record directly to tape.
Cheers, Peter

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Da Vinci & Scratch

Da Vinci & Scratch

... enable colorists to grade 4096 x 2048 12bit native RED RAW files at a range of speeds and resolutions.

Other systems leave a portion of color behind during conversion, limiting grading to a narrower range of color and density.

Is there a diffenrence between the "native RED RAW" support from Da Vinci and the one from Scratch Assimilate?

Does Scratch use the same conversion as Davinci or is it based on an other SDK?

Luki?

Patrick

 

[jake blackstone]

Is there a diffenrence between the "native RED RAW" support from Da Vinci and the one from Scratch Assimilate?

Does Scratch use the same conversion as Davinci or is it based on an other SDK?

Luki?

Patrick

Scratch is the only one that handles r3d natively. Everybody else, including DaVinci, Baselight, Lustre. Pablo etc. does it with SDK, even when they do say they handle Red "native"...

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Scratch is the only one that handles r3d natively. Everybody else, including DaVinci, Baselight, Lustre. Pablo etc. does it with SDK, even when they do say they handle Red "native"...

But before aplying any correction to the RAW file even Scratch has to decode the bayer information to an RGB value. Am I right? Wich is exaclty the purpose of the SDK. What is the difference between these "native" solutions?

Patrick

 

[jake blackstone]

But before aplying any correction to the RAW file even Scratch has to decode the bayer information to an RGB value. Am I right? Wich is exaclty the purpose of the SDK. What is the difference between these "native" solutions?

Patrick

They all have to do it, SDK or "native". All SDK means, that only Scratch has the inside knowledge of the debayer algorithms and in theory, Assimilate could write their own debayering algorithms, which could conceivably ended up in better quality debayer with more user controls or in increased speed. Everybody else just have to use the SDK blackbox without any understanding of how exactly the RedCode works.

 

[C_Skaff]

One big diference is that scratch is able to actualy grade using the 'SDK' controlls. And by grading I mean adjusting Exp,Lift,Gain,Sat... And see the result as you move the slider or ball.

In many SDK-aps, the system uses the SDK as a converter-box (in software) to convert R3D >Dpx/Tiff/Sgi so it can use it. Witch means that I have to setup the 'SDK-parameters' prior to import. And if I don't like it... Then I have to reimport with new settings.
But at least in Resolve I can change the SDK live and see the image updated. So it actially feels like I'm grading Nativly though its through the SDK.
And if they listen to me, I'll even have all the controlls on the panels so I can use my balls and knobs.

 

[jake blackstone]

One big diference is that scratch is able to actualy grade using the 'SDK' controlls. And by grading I mean adjusting Exp,Lift,Gain,Sat... And see the result as you move the slider or ball.

In many SDK-aps, the system uses the SDK as a converter-box (in software) to convert R3D >Dpx/Tiff/Sgi so it can use it. Witch means that I have to setup the 'SDK-parameters' prior to import. And if I don't like it... Then I have to reimport with new settings.
But at least in Resolve I can change the SDK live and see the image updated. So it actially feels like I'm grading Nativly though its through the SDK.
And if they listen to me, I'll even have all the controlls on the panels so I can use my balls and knobs.

You're incorrect, at least in case of Baselight. There is no "prior import" or background debayering needed. Baselight operates exactly like Scratch directly from r3d files with live debayer. There are, unlike DaVinci, no intermediate files of any kind used or created.

 

[fancourt]

You're incorrect, at least in case of Baselight. There is no "prior import" or background debayering needed. Baselight operates exactly like Scratch directly from r3d files with live debayer. There are, unlike DaVinci, no intermediate files of any kind used or created.

They're also available on the blackboard (ie control surface)

 

[C_Skaff]

They're also available on the blackboard (ie control surface)

Oh, thats nice. Mybe that should wake up the other boys that hasn't put it on the panels yet.

You're incorrect, at least in case of Baselight. There is no "prior import" or background debayering needed. Baselight operates exactly like Scratch directly from r3d files with live debayer. There are, unlike DaVinci, no intermediate files of any kind used or created.

Well, not completly wrong
As I said "At least daVinci..:" leaving room for others that does the same. And if you say so, then BaseLight does the same thing.

But I was trying to not mention names, but here goes.
I think that in a Nucoda yu hav to right-click a clip and adjust the Red-settings. So if I want to change the ISO, the I have to right-click, change ISO, hit Apply, and then only after hitting Apply /OK it atcually changes the image. Witch I think is a downside.

I think, from what I rememberd from NAB, that Flame/Flint etc is even worth... in there the R3D had to be imported with the SDK-settings setup however I needed. But I could be wrong


(I've got no financial intrest in daVinci... except, the more clients they get, the better software they wright, the better software I get, the better job I do, the more clients I get, the more money I earn. But besides that, no interest

 

[jake blackstone]

I think, from what I rememberd from NAB, that Flame/Flint etc is even worth... in there the R3D had to be imported with the SDK-settings setup however I needed. But I could be wrong

Flame/Flint aren't color grading devices. Lustre is and it is also works directly with r3d, the same way as is the Baselight or DaVinci. I'm not sure of the controls on the control surface though. So, really, can we drop this subject, that somehow DaVinci is superior in dealing with r3d? It isn't...

 

[Peter Moretti]

...

The da Vinci RED Raw solution enables colorists to load RED files onto a SAN, and immediately begin grading the complete exposure and bit depth range as captured by the camera.

Other systems leave a portion of color behind during conversion, limiting grading to a narrower range of color and density. With the da Vinci RED solution, colorists have access to the full value of the captured digital
images to produce a higher-quality look.
...

If this is true then it's rather important. Do you care to explain in specific terms we can all understand:

1) How da Vinci is the only system that accesses "the full value of the captured digital images."

2) How "other systems leave a portion of color behind during conversion."

 

[C_Skaff]

Flame/Flint aren't color grading devices. Lustre is and it is also works directly with r3d, the same way as is the Baselight or DaVinci. I'm not sure of the controls on the control surface though. So, really, can we drop this subject, that somehow DaVinci is superior in dealing with r3d? It isn't...

daVinci might not be the superior grading tool. But grading on a Resolve from R3D is superior to grading a "R3D-converted-to-DPX". (since that might be done with a "one-setting-for-all-RedLine-Setting"

I'm not trying to say that daVinci is o much better then the rest, but now as a daVinci colorist I can drop the thoughts on getting a XXX to get better Red-support.
But we'll see what happens when RedRocket is out, if daVinci can use that or get left behind with propriatory expensive hardaware...