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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Custom LUTs, Calibration and consulting -30% Special Offer for RED users

Evangelos Achillopoulos

Evangelos Achillopoulos

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THERE HAVE LEFT ONLY 2 OFFERED PACKAGES !!

Harry up it ends today!

Hello all,

It’s new season for the film industry, its mid October and lots of you guys are preparing to finish various projects aiming for Cinema distribution.

Some of you are in shooting, others in post and some are started Color Grading.

The last years we have consulted lots of guys around the globe, mostly small studios to get this “secret” know how of color management and LUTs creation.

We offered them, remote one to one training through Skype, we provided tools like CineSpace CineProfiler (free edition) and I assisted them to optimize and calibrate their monitor, all that together with custom 3D LUTs for their specific setup, LUTs that I continued to provide them for many years after. And all that, with to the point consulting, no excessive technicalities, plain and simple, fast and easy.

All our clients got excellent results in “What You See Is What You Get” during the distribution of their movies in digital as well as in film theaters.

We have used from cheap LED TVs, REC709 monitors to high end projectors, all we needed was a probe that costs 1150$ the i1 pro-2 and my assistance, with training, software and custom LUTs.

In my web you will find success stories and films that went up to be winning award at Sundance and even being in the short list for Oscars…

Today I want to offer a discount of -30% for the “DI Post Facilities - Digital Only package” that sells at 800 euro for only 560 euros, for the first 10 that will click on the hidden page below and buy the offer. The page will automatically be removed when the first 10 will pay.

http://bit.ly/TbVUDY

So the lucky first 10 clients that will pay until 25th of October they will get a discount of 240 euros!!!

The equivalent investment for a small post production house to be able to have this level of support without the one to one consulting, with the unique CineSpace Output Independent Profiling method and ALL needed conversion LUTs to deliver the job, costs at least X4 the price of our package with the probe.

Open to answer your questions through the forum or by email at Lakis@motionfx.gr.
 
There was a question from Jake Blackstone:

I'm curious about the CineSpace CineProfiler (free edition) part. I could be wrong, but as far as I know, since CineSpace was purchased by THX ,CineProfiler is not free any longer. The free version 2.8 and earlier, as far as I know, doesn't work with i1 Pro-2, which you need, if you want to be able to profile plasma.
Click to expand...

I'm a user of CineSpace since 2005 I have bought and paid upgrades to Rising Sun Research. I can assure you that since the CineCube Visual of version 2.7 until today there is NO real development on the product. The 2.9.2 has just the inverse transform integrated and the 2.8 has things that where as pretransforms internally and Plasma profiling mode is just OIP with internal patch playback.

So basically all functionality needed to do the job is there since 2.6.... I use and provide 2.7.2 free edition that can do everything the 2.9 does today... and when I say everything I mean everything...

As for the probe I have already tested it and I have clients in US and ie Jakarta that using it successfully.

X-Rite i1-pro 2 is backwards compatible with i1-pro only that has much better blacks performance...

Read more about i1-pro 2 and its compatibility mode here:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/eye_one_pro_ii.shtml
 
Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
I use and provide 2.7.2 free edition that can do everything the 2.9 does
Click to expand...
Well to be precise, there were never a free edition of CineSpace. It just so happened, that until THX purchased the Rising Sun software, the profiler portion of the software suite could be used for profiling without paying for the necessary license. Once THX took over, they immediately closed that loophole by limiting it's use, specifically by excluding plasma profiling in order to limit it's free use...
 
Its not a loophole, as a paid floating license user I bought CineSpace back then to be able to work with my partners and collaborate to finish movies wherever we where and that was the main selling point of RSR. To do that essential part of the workflow was the ability to run CineProfiler in whatever machine it was needed for every different project. Back then the Floating license was very-very expensive because allowed that functionality. Yes THX tried to limit it but the limitation it has is insufficient coz they basically didn’t done any development since 2.7… And you can’t limit something that someone has already bought. The minor cosmetic fixes and inclusion of external futures isn’t development as the one we did back then with Mike when we actively fixing the science behind it based on experimental data…

OIP works the same for plasma and for everything else and it’s the profiling mode I use with my partners to deliver the job. So all the rest is just irrelevant to get the job done..

More over a partner can always buy CineSpace to build his own LUTs without the need of my LUT service. The moment he feels secure that all needed is learned that moment my job is finished. My aim is to teach and for that I get paid. LUTs are just the by-product of my collaboration with my partners.
 
Evangelos.
It is not my intent to interfere with your business model. I just was pointing out, that there never was a "free edition of CineProfiler to distribute to whoever you'd like, without paying the license fee to the software owner". Just because I paid full price for Resolve, doesn't give me the right to give it to any of my clients, who'd like to use it for remote grading, which does require paid version.

Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
Its not a loophole, as a paid floating license user I bought CineSpace back then to be able to work with my partners and collaborate to finish movies wherever we where and that was the main selling point of RSR. To do that essential part of the workflow was the ability to run CineProfiler in whatever machine it was needed for every different project. Back then the Floating license was very-very expensive because allowed that functionality. Yes THX tried to limit it but the limitation it has is insufficient coz they basically didn’t done any development since 2.7… And you can’t limit something that someone has already bought. The minor cosmetic fixes and inclusion of external futures isn’t development as the one we did back then with Mike when we actively fixing the science behind it based on experimental data…

OIP works the same for plasma and for everything else and it’s the profiling mode I use with my partners to deliver the job. So all the rest is just irrelevant to get the job done..

More over a partner can always buy CineSpace to build his own LUTs without the need of my LUT service. The moment he feels secure that all needed is learned that moment my job is finished. My aim is to teach and for that I get paid. LUTs are just the by-product of my collaboration with my partners.
Click to expand...
 
I’m not giving something that is not already be given for free from manufacture. Anyone can get it even today from THX… is in the evaluation package and it is called CineProfiler Lite it does have some limitations but isn’t crippled. Some of my clients do exactly that, they register evaluation and after the consulting and couple of jobs delivered when they feel confident they just buy it from THX and do all the work independently.

Moreover you compare apples with oranges. I did paid a heavy premium to be able to do exactly what I say (which is NOT the case of DaVinci) so all was under the owner’s license of RSR back then. Today for version 2.9.2 things are different but I’m using the version I have paid for, to do the job that I was intend to do and promised.

I don’t have as an owner of 2.7.2 any support from THX coz they a) don’t develop anything (i.e. OLED support) and b) they simply don’t give support to previous version owners… The software we have is for them like EOL… to Give an example if my Mac that I host my license, crash they don’t provide us with new license key even though that’s their duty to do so, as Cinetal i.e. did in the past, because that was their agreement with the previous owner of CineSpace, not to support older versions.

So to be clear there is NO loophole, what I do is legitimate 100% and I don’t “sell” or “distribute” software I just do what I was promised to do when I paid the “floating” license premium and not the “node locked” license. And I only get paid for my consulting-LUT services.

If what I do hurts some guys competitive advantage because I democratize the secret sauce I’m sorry but that’s life…
 
Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
I’m not giving something that is not already be given for free from manufacture. Anyone can get it even today from THX… is in the evaluation package and it is called CineProfiler Lite it does have some limitations but isn’t crippled. Some of my clients do exactly that, they register evaluation and after the consulting and couple of jobs delivered when they feel confident they just buy it from THX and do all the work independently.

Moreover you compare apples with oranges. I did paid a heavy premium to be able to do exactly what I say (which is NOT the case of DaVinci) so all was under the owner’s license of RSR back then. Today for version 2.9.2 things are different but I’m using the version I have paid for, to do the job that I was intend to do and promised.

I don’t have as an owner of 2.7.2 any support from THX coz they a) don’t develop anything (i.e. OLED support) and b) they simply don’t give support to previous version owners… The software we have is for them like EOL… to Give an example if my Mac that I host my license, crash they don’t provide us with new license key even though that’s their duty to do so, as Cinetal i.e. did in the past, because that was their agreement with the previous owner of CineSpace, not to support older versions.

So to be clear there is NO loophole, what I do is legitimate 100% and I don’t “sell” or “distribute” software I just do what I was promised to do when I paid the “floating” license premium and not the “node locked” license. And I only get paid for my consulting-LUT services.

If what I do hurts some guys competitive advantage because I democratize the secret sauce I’m sorry but that’s life…
Click to expand...
Again, I want to be clear, I have no problem with what you do, when it comes to your services.
It's just, that I'd like to point out, again, mischaracterization of the software used for your services.
1. Just because you paid for the software, doesn't mean you own it. You pay only for license to use it, but the company retains it's ownership. Floating license simply means you can use it on any computer you use. But it doesn't mean, that you can give it to your clients. This rule applies to any software.
2. You have no more support, because 2.7.2 version is EOL and if you still would like the support, you'd need to pay to upgrade to the current software. No one can expect to have a lifetime support for a software.
3. So, now that we agree, that there is no such thing as a "free edition of CineSpace", I'd like to point out, that, yes, there is such thing as "evaluation license", which MUST be requested from THX and they actually very strict as to whom they provide it to. My friend in Moscow requested it and they refused. As a result, my friend ended up buying LightSpace. THX provides a 15 days evaluation license and the actual software from their FTP. After the expiration of the license, CineProfiler turns into CineProfiler Lite, by specifically disabling Plasma profiling among others. Which means, that THX doesn't want people profiling plasma without paying:-)
 
jake blackstone said:
Again, I want to be clear, I have no problem with what you do, when it comes to your services.
It's just, that I'd like to point out, again, mischaracterization of the software used for your services.
Click to expand...

You do have a problem and you trying to evidence that I do something illegal...

jake blackstone said:
1. Just because you paid for the software, doesn't mean you own it. You pay only for license to use it, but the company retains it's ownership. Floating license simply means you can use it on any computer you use. But it doesn't mean, that you can give it to your clients. This rule applies to any software.
Click to expand...

I didn't paid for just a software that runs in my computer, I didn't paid for "node locked" version that is meant to be used in ONLY one computer to profile AND to create LUTs for that particular computer ONLY. What I bought is "floating" license (a licence to float...) that has the extra characteristic which allows me to create LUTs from profiles that are made in OTHER computers. AND to have THAT ability RSR gave me the right to *USE* CineProfiler Free or Lite in whatever machine me AND my partners OR persons that act for my interests *USE*.

So,

IF you have the "node locked" licence you CANT build LUTs for other computers apart from the one that HAS the licence COZ CineCube is LOCKED and doesn't accept profiles from CineProfiler Lite OR Free that has run on other computers.-

IF you have the "floating" licence you CAN and that comes with the ability to *USE* CineProfiler Lite OR Free in the computers that you want to serve.-

jake blackstone said:
2. You have no more support, because 2.7.2 version is EOL and if you still would like the support, you'd need to pay to upgrade to the current software. No one can expect to have a lifetime support for a software.
Click to expand...

When I'm referring to support I'm talking about solely for key generation. Everyone knows that from the day that software keys where invented ALL vendors have the obligation to support the client in case of computer crash to gennerate for him a new key. That is the case from Microsoft to Apple to Autodesk and to every company that respects its clients. THX DOESN'T PROVIDE THAT VERY BASIC SUPPORT!!! THAT CINETAL WAS PROVIDING AT NO EXTRA COST! I'm not talking for support to call them and ask anything else... just license key for the version I have.-

For my Windows XP that I have on my old laptop, which is bought in 2004, Microsoft still provides me with activation codes... that's 8 years after!!! so please...

jake blackstone said:
3. So, now that we agree, that there is no such thing as a "free edition of CineSpace"
Click to expand...

In their price list they say "FREE" for Lite and they charge 125$ for the one that wants to buy the VGA Plasma profiling.

jake blackstone said:
I'd like to point out, that, yes, there is such thing as "evaluation license", which MUST be requested from THX and they actually very strict as to whom they provide it to. My friend in Moscow requested it and they refused. As a result, my friend ended up buying LightSpace. THX provides a 15 days evaluation license and the actual software from their FTP. After the expiration of the license, CineProfiler turns into CineProfiler Lite, by specifically disabling Plasma profiling among others. Which means, that THX doesn't want people profiling plasma without paying:-)
Click to expand...

If they didn't want someone to have CineProfiler they would lock it TOTALLY. Instead they allow it to run as Lite which does all, except Plasma profiling of a Plasma screen that is CONNECTED to the VGA, DVI port etc of the computer, AS A COMPUTER GRAPHICS DISPLAY.

IF you have it CONNECTED to HD-SDI as a VIDEO monitor then you NEED, OUTPUT INDEPENDENT PROFILING also known as OIP. What OIP does different is that to work you need to load a DPX sequence in the timeline and play it back using the GPU with your Lustre, Pablo, DaVinci, Scratch etc. to the HD-SDI out... AND as YOU KNOW that method works for PLASMA ALSO!!! AND IS MUCH MORE ACCURATE COZ IT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE ERRORS OF THE OPEN-GL RENDERING!!!

OIP works on CineProfiler Lite or Free as well...

So please let me do my job...
 
Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
You do have a problem and you trying to evidence that I do something illegal...



I didn't paid for just a software that runs in my computer, I didn't paid for "node locked" version that is meant to be used in ONLY one computer to profile AND to create LUTs for that particular computer ONLY. What I bought is "floating" license (a licence to float...) that has the extra characteristic which allows me to create LUTs from profiles that are made in OTHER computers. AND to have THAT ability RSR gave me the right to *USE* CineProfiler Free or Lite in whatever machine me AND my partners OR persons that act for my interests *USE*.

So,

IF you have the "node locked" licence you CANT build LUTs for other computers apart from the one that HAS the licence COZ CineCube is LOCKED and doesn't accept profiles from CineProfiler Lite OR Free that has run on other computers.-

IF you have the "floating" licence you CAN and that comes with the ability to *USE* CineProfiler Lite OR Free in the computers that you want to serve.-



When I'm referring to support I'm talking about solely for key generation. Everyone knows that from the day that software keys where invented ALL vendors have the obligation to support the client in case of computer crash to gennerate for him a new key. That is the case from Microsoft to Apple to Autodesk and to every company that respects its clients. THX DOESN'T PROVIDE THAT VERY BASIC SUPPORT!!! THAT CINETAL WAS PROVIDING AT NO EXTRA COST! I'm not talking for support to call them and ask anything else... just license key for the version I have.-

For my Windows XP that I have on my old laptop, which is bought in 2004, Microsoft still provides me with activation codes... that's 8 years after!!! so please...



In their price list they say "FREE" for Lite and they charge 125$ for the one that wants to buy the VGA Plasma profiling.



If they didn't want someone to have CineProfiler they would lock it TOTALLY. Instead they allow it to run as Lite which does all, except Plasma profiling of a Plasma screen that is CONNECTED to the VGA, DVI port etc of the computer, AS A COMPUTER GRAPHICS DISPLAY.

IF you have it CONNECTED to HD-SDI as a VIDEO monitor then you NEED, OUTPUT INDEPENDENT PROFILING also known as OIP. What OIP does different is that to work you need to load a DPX sequence in the timeline and play it back using the GPU with your Lustre, Pablo, DaVinci, Scratch etc. to the HD-SDI out... AND as YOU KNOW that method works for PLASMA ALSO!!! AND IS MUCH MORE ACCURATE COZ IT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE ERRORS OF THE OPEN-GL RENDERING!!!

OIP works on CineProfiler Lite or Free as well...

So please let me do my job...
Click to expand...

I think a floating license is only valid within your own company / firm. I think thats all he is trying to say...
 
I have absolutely no problem with your business. Why would i ever have a problem with what you do? May be someone like Steve Shaw would, as he is in the same business as you are...
It's the tools, that you're using, that are problematic. As I said it already, purchasing floating license allows you to run it on your own computers, not on your clients computers.
But hey, I'm not THX. If they have no problem with you providing their software to your clients, then neither do I:-)
I just wouldn't advertise it...
 
Lets assume that I have a film to finish and I collaborate with a freelancer to do the VFX... what make you think that I don't have the right to use it to align his monitor with my monitors?

That was the reason that I bought it in the first place. Basically everyone that has a connection with me i.e. to print his movie in my film recorders is giving me the right to use the software I bought to do my job... I repeat that was the reason I bought it and back then I made it very clear that, that would be the case... Coz when you do a movie you have always to collaborate with other people and always you just do a small part of the movie... If that part is film out or whatever...

I don't have clients, I have partners... When we collaborate in the industry to deliver a movie we are all partners, except of the producer which is THE client... Plain and simple....
 
Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
Lets assume that I have a film to finish and I collaborate with a freelancer to do the VFX... what make you think that I don't have the right to use it to align his monitor with my monitors?

That was the reason that I bought it in the first place. Basically everyone that has a connection with me i.e. to print his movie in my film recorders is giving me the right to use the software I bought to do my job... I repeat that was the reason I bought it and back then I made it very clear that, that would be the case... Coz when you do a movie you have always to collaborate with other people and always you just do a small part of the movie... If that part is film out or whatever...

I don't have clients, I have partners... When we collaborate in the industry to deliver a movie we are all partners, except of the producer which is THE client... Plain and simple....
Click to expand...

Evangelos,

I've collected some data for this discussion.

Here is how the floating license is described in the Cinespace 2.7 user guide:
"Floating licenses that run on the RLM server allow multiple users, across multiple workstations and platforms, to share access to the cineSpace software suite. The RLM server runs in the background on a computer on your network. Usage is restricted only by the number of concurrent seats allowed by the license file, making it the ideal option for facilities with a large number of users or changing production needs. Setting up a license server does, however, require an extra step during the cineSpace installation process."

A THX spokesperson recently described to me the difference between locked-node and floating licenses as a lifting of the single-machine restriction so that multiple stations "at your facility" can run the software.

I see nothing in those descriptions that imply acceptable usage outside of your facility. Please feel free to post anything from THX that supports your claim that you have the right to distribute this software (for free or as part of services rendered for profit) or to calibrate the displays of facilities that work on your projects.
 
I want to clear that whatever THX says is not my business because I’m NOT a client of THX since they don’t consider me as a client refusing support for license continuity (the case of my machine crash to supply me with a new key for the version I use).

Being said that I want to once more say that I’m a client of RSR, not Cinetal, not THX and the terms that I have agree to buy CineSpace was on 2.5 not on 2.7 and I was extensively discuss the issue of collaboration with partners to finish a job before I made the order. 2.7 were upgraded due to a support contract that I had active with RSR back then.

Back then there were two options to have RLM OR not to have RLM. The RLM was good for node locked installations where you needed to run CineProfiler to other workstations and by this way to move your lisence around depending on the concurrent users allowed.

I didn’t choose that option and I paid 3X more to have Floating with no RLM. RSR back then had taken the strategic decision to allow CineProfiler to RUN without a license key… Not limited, fully run without a key as free software. What was the difference? It was that CineCube if you didn’t have the floating version wouldn’t allow you to create LUT’s for other machines.

The main purpose of RLM was for EqualEyes and other software tools in the suite and not for CineProfiler.

For my experience of 7+ years in use of CineSpace I have to say that all REAL development stopped the day that went out of the hands of RSR. Plasma profiling is just an internal OIP playback…

Finally don’t compare apples with oranges Floating had different cost and different rules attached on, from node locked. DaVinci for remote has one cost and one license and that’s a world of difference.

Also what i do, makes sales to THX coz I learn people how to use it. And I can count at-least 8 sales because of that.



BTW. What CineCube 2.7 does it can be done also with 2.5... just saying...
 
Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
Being said that I want to once more say that I’m a client of RSR, not Cinetal, not THX and the terms that I have agree to buy CineSpace was on 2.5 not on 2.7 and I was extensively discuss the issue of collaboration with partners to finish a job before I made the order. 2.7 were upgraded due to a support contract that I had active with RSR back then.
Click to expand...

Your license agreement is now with THX because they purchased the rights to the software. They own the software you're using and giving away.

How is your license agreement for 2.5 when you say you're using 2.7.2?

Evangelos Achillopoulos said:
I use and provide 2.7.2 free edition that can do everything the 2.9 does today... and when I say everything I mean everything...
Click to expand...

Since questions of legality have been raised it would be in your best interest to prove that you have permission to use the software in this manner, either by posting the license agreement from 2.5 (if that is version you're using) or a quote from pre-sales discussion. Otherwise prospective customers might make the logical assumption that you're violating copyright law and that they in turn would be by accepting a copy of the software.
 
It’s meaningless to continue this debate, if you have the basic knowledge in IP law you will understand that my contractual rights and obligations are with RSR and the successors don’t have any right to change retroactively the terms of my agreement… whatever intellectual property they have bought. My rights as a client of RSR are in good standing. Asking me to dig in my emails as if I’m in a trail is NOT something that I will do.

Further more, if THX feel's it has a case then they can sue my company, I have a business and I’m real.

If they don’t, please stop playing the judge and leave me alone to do my job as I like.

Since you all guys are having interests that you assume I violate, for some reason, I have to say that this is a free market and everyone has its own positions and offerings, so back off.
 
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