Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Crowdfunding...

Tim Whitcomb said:
Just went to a workshop and learned that a successful campaign is all about the following 10 Steps:

1. THE PRIZES... get creative... this is a WAY bigger factor than people think. DVD's are so boring. Wrap them in bubble gum or include a T-Shirt. People will pay $50 for a T-Shirt. Its a badge of honor.
2. THE VIDEO - See Rick Darge's highly creative effort. His use of actual $1 bills to show how he would spend the $ absolutely sold me... as did his humorous and no bullshit approach.
3. Host REAL world EVENTS like a a party and encourage people to donate then... think about how easy this is.
4. Dont OVER POST it online until the last day. Nothing turns people off faster than ANYTHING that is over promoted. Think about it. From saturation trailers of the same damn trailer the week before a blockbuster to that funny commercial that soon makes you puke its on so much. to that hit song that plays over and over ad nauseum... once a week is PLENTY until the last day.
5. Have a large Angel investor ready to donate the first money.
6. Dont ask for too little! This is huge... many times we see an amount and think... "no way they can make that for so little money" also make sure to budget for FEES and COST OF PRIZES
7. Understand and appreciate that most people donate last minute. Stay with it and don't get discouraged, get creative with more prizes!
8. Accept the BRUTAL REALITY that friends will be the LAST people to donate usually. Strangers are your friends. Market OUTSIDE of your city.
9. Up and Coming producers in LA and NY will PAY FOR PRODUCER and EXEC PRODUCER CREDITS. This is also huge. Try and find people needing credits.
10. Dont OVER POST YOUR CAMPAIGN on FACEBOOK TWITTER etc.. .its so easy to smurf your own campaign and worth mentioning twice.

I havent used any of the above yet, but they sure make sense to me. Good Luck Gunleik!
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's about a lot more than just these 10 steps. Most of these points are fairly obvious, but people do get them wrong. Some of these points are totally incorrect.

I backed over 100 Kickstarter campaigns before starting my own and obsessively studied what successful campaigns did. Even developed custom software to help analyze things and find backers before I even launched the campaign.

If you want to succeed at crowdfunding make a Kickstarter campaign and start backing people right now. Pick popular campaigns, Staff Picks, and brand new campaigns. You are only charged if the campaigns reach their goal. I've backed almost 200 campaigns from almost every category. You can back for as little as $1.

A presence on Facebook and Twitter is hugely important and posting once a week and/or waiting til the end is a perfect recipe for failure. It's campaign suicide.
 
Am I the only one that finds looking for a handout unethical regardless of hipster name pinned on it ?(crowdfunding? really?)
don't get all upset guys- this is a valid question (I think:)
I know , I know... beg , borrow and steal...
 
Jacek makes an interesting point......

All the books i've read on "funding your movie" stated that the more money you got from outside sources the more thinly spread is your ownership of the film if it goes well..

So I suppose It depends what "they" get out of it? A T-Shirt and a DVD isn't too bad.. A credit in the film, possible, but I assume they don't get any access to any profits from the film if it's a success?

Again, I don't really know what "crowd-funding" is all about so i'll go and read all about it.. !(grin)

SK
 
As this whole area matures, I think crowdfunding sites like Kickstarter will represent better marketinmg opportunities than funding opportunities. As has been said, if you have a "stry" that resonates with a lot of people, and you get the word out to start developing a following before you launch your campaign, you may get money for production. Better yet, I think, is that you are already well into production and you want to get the word out, you include a K/S campaign in your social media campaign and offer what amounts to a "pre-sale" of your media.

Just one way to think through it.

The best new thing in funding will arise in the next few months as we learn more about the JOBS Act passed by Congress last year. :-)
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Am I the only one that finds looking for a handout unethical regardless of hipster name pinned on it ?(crowdfunding? really?)
don't get all upset guys- this is a valid question (I think:)
I know , I know... beg , borrow and steal...
Click to expand...

There's absolutely nothing unethical about it. Like I said, I've given to almost 200 Kickstarter campaigns and it is a great feeling to know you were a part, even if it's a small part, of making something happen. Be it a short film, feature film, comic book, children's book or whatever. Feel free to mock the idea, but it's the future. It's not a fad.

In 2012 and 2013 ~10% of the films at Sundance were funded, in part or in full, on Kickstarter. Several Oscar nominated films were funded on Kickstarter.

Simon Knight said:
Jacek makes an interesting point......

All the books i've read on "funding your movie" stated that the more money you got from outside sources the more thinly spread is your ownership of the film if it goes well..

So I suppose It depends what "they" get out of it? A T-Shirt and a DVD isn't too bad.. A credit in the film, possible, but I assume they don't get any access to any profits from the film if it's a success?

Again, I don't really know what "crowd-funding" is all about so i'll go and read all about it.. !(grin)

SK
Click to expand...

Crowdfunding is not Crowdinvesting. No backer has an equity interest. It's not legal for them to when crowdfunding.

Crowdinvesting was just made legal in the US. Expect to hear more about this later in the year. Crowdinvesting is similar to crowdfunding funding, but people can get a %, albeit small, for backing you.

Even if you have a lot of investors it does not mean your interest is more "thinly spread". If 1,000 people each give you $50 or 1 person gives you $50,000 your % is most likely the same. If anything it may be larger with 1,000 people because if you have just 1 investor they may expect a larger %.
 
Admittedly, I have not spent a lot of time on Kickstarter but Rick Darge did such an amazing job of selling me on the idea of his film, it was impossible for me to not get involved somehow. Very effective campaign and I knew he was on his way when my neighbor contributed, knowing nothing about Rick Darge prior to me posting about the film on Facebook. Kudos to Rick for his fun spirit, diligence, and dedication to the process.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Am I the only one that finds looking for a handout unethical regardless of hipster name pinned on it ?(crowdfunding? really?)
don't get all upset guys- this is a valid question (I think:)
I know , I know... beg , borrow and steal...
Click to expand...

Historically the arts have always relied on patronage, and will for a long time yet I'd say.
 
I don't thing the movie INDUSTRY ever relied on patronage. Definitely relies on a business model with the basic investment/return cycle...
I won't even go into the now famous Martin Scorsese line :)
 
Problem is that it adds another layer of "things you have to do before you do". But it is really nothing "new" about it in many ways. It is about creating anticipation and selling "a story about the story" in advance.

Plain marketing. And the money you get this way is not better or worse than other money.
But they aren't neccesarily "cheaper" or "more available".

Anyhow.

Good discussion.

Let's keep it floating!
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Plain marketing. And the money you get this way is not better or worse than other money.
But they aren't neccesarily "cheaper" or "more available".


Let's keep it floating!
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand the concept. "Marketing" is a promotion of a product that offers value in return for money. Crowdfunding can't be that because if you offer something of value in return it would make it illegal (most likely a fraud)
Crowdfunding is more like handing money to a homeless person on an intersection- You don't expect anything in return- your donation is motivated by compassion, pity, or other emotions- essentially irrational (not that's anything wrong with that:)
now that person may try to save up to get a place to live and get back on track- or they can just go and get some buzz....
You can't hold them responsible because you had no expectations from your donation. If a company is marketing a product and that product turns out to be faulty you can certainly hold them responsible- that's what the consumer protection is for.
At least that's my understanding of marketing versus crowdfunding campaign...
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
I don't think you understand the concept. "Marketing" is a promotion of a product that offers value in return for money. Crowdfunding can't be that because if you offer something of value in return it would make it illegal (most likely a fraud)
Click to expand...

It pretty often works just like pre-sales, from quite a few of the campaigns I see...

And as pointed out, crowd-investing has become legal.

Value is a funny term... What you give "value", has "value"...

Most marketing is about giving something without any measurable value (or practically a very a very low measurable value) a perceived value for someone which makes them wanna shell out for it...

Take clothes.

A shirt may cost around 1$ to have made in Thailand, but marketing gives it the value of a 100$

Capitalism (which I am in no way only against) is about manipulating values.
Marketing (like crowdfunding can work like) is THE tool for altwring values of things in public space...

And we love it!
We really admire businesses with a good ROI, which practically means that they have managed to sell something of a lower value for "more"... :-)
 
We have different understanding of capitalism. Free market is all about equalizing value by the means of competition. Manipulating values is more evident in systems that are more government controlled with subsidies, taxes, etc. As the matter of fact most forms of value manipulation, such as price fixing are illegal in capitalism as they breach its fundamental premise...
 
Hm... Our understanding of capitalism is in sync, from what you write. Our understanding of "value" may differ, and mine has changed a lot over the last few years.

But I stand by that captialism is mainly about manipulating understanding of what has value and what not. Branding is a pretty obvious example. It is mostly about perceived value, independent of actual quality/value.

Profit is about making more value out of less.

Nothing wrong with that, but without that concept, there wouldn't be any profits, and stuff would stop.

Anyhow.

Back on topic.
Don't want this thread to be derailed.

Not even by ne! :-)

Political/philosophical discussions are generally not encouraged here, for very good reasons, I have come to think.

On topic, it seems like a lot of crowdfunding ventures are either presales (like the digital bolex) or selling the story about the story around the product (like Rich Darges) or a combination of the two. Both concepts are ways to give the contributer some kind of value back for their contribution. Which is good! :-)
 
Having done a couple of crowd funding projects which where semi successful my observations are.......

1) Crowd funding it is not, it should be called extended friends & family funding . Which is fine because it gives them a online vehicle to give you money whilst feeling good without feeling like they are funding that lazy relative who makes films whilst smoking bongs. (not your relatives Gunliek, mine)

2) This is not money for nothing, you need to devote considerable time & energy to updates requests & everything else. In effect you will not be doing anything else whilst the campaign runs so forget trying to advance said project until the funding window closes.

3) Never rely on the Indiegogo/Kickstarter to promote your project it will not happen unless you are lucky or (Sigh) you are Brandon.

4) Having said that this does generate goodwill & interest in your project & can generate funds.

SO GO FOR IT....with eyes wide open.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
I don't think you understand the concept. "Marketing" is a promotion of a product that offers value in return for money. Crowdfunding can't be that because if you offer something of value in return it would make it illegal (most likely a fraud)
Crowdfunding is more like handing money to a homeless person on an intersection- You don't expect anything in return- your donation is motivated by compassion, pity, or other emotions- essentially irrational (not that's anything wrong with that:)
now that person may try to save up to get a place to live and get back on track- or they can just go and get some buzz....
You can't hold them responsible because you had no expectations from your donation. If a company is marketing a product and that product turns out to be faulty you can certainly hold them responsible- that's what the consumer protection is for.
At least that's my understanding of marketing versus crowdfunding campaign...
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand the concept of both marketing and crowdfunding. You obviously CAN offer something of value. All the law says is that the money received is not an investment. You can't offer an equity position to people for backing you. Lots of films are funded by pre-selling distribution rights to various territories. Is skipping the middle man and pre-selling your film directly to the viewer all that different? And that is not even all you can offer...

How is crowdfunding something a way to help market it? Simple. You are proving there is an audience/customer base for what you are doing.

Did David Fincher need charity for his Kickstarter campaign? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/624061548/the-goon-movie-lets-kickstart-this-sucker?ref=category Hardly. He was proving there is an audience for a film studios were not confident about funding. He did that.

How about Charlie Kaufman? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/anomalisa/charlie-kaufmans-anomalisa?ref=category

Did these guys not offer anything of value? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...per-watch-for-iphone-and-android?ref=category 68,929 people seem to think they did.

These guys leveraged their large YouTube audience to raise over $250,000 for their web series: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/freddiew/video-game-high-school?ref=category They delivered and now they are doing it again for season 2 and they are on target to raise over $600,000: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/freddiew/video-game-high-school-season-two

Check out all these tech devices that were funded: http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/technology/most-funded

Charity? Pity? Nothing of value?
 
I had a project over on Indiegogo for a couple of months, it never really attracted a lot of input, some friends etc and few random supporters.

Once that came to an end, I raised about $600, I then thought "Screw it" and coded my project facebook page and set up a direct to my corporate PayPal feature using the whole Perks ideal of sites such as Indiegogo and Kickstarter. Using that system I have raised a lot more than that realized with the indiegogo project, and without having to pay any commissions!

Points that I found were key are to include Perks where the people can see their name recognized in public NOW, not when the project ends (film credits or special thanks etc) but on a page such as the facebook. For example the movie project I'm working on deals with sharks, conservation and natural history. All shot in a massively isolated and, for the most part, undocumented location it has the appeal of going out into the unknown. I offer people the chance to buy project apparel that is only available via the crowd funding gig. I also give people a title, those who back the project become 'Shark Guardians' when they donate a minimum of $10. These names appear on a special tab on the facebook page which I also tweet out whenever another is added. With a following on twitter of 110k made up of individuals who admire the Ocean, Wildlife, Sharks, Conservation and imaging this sends a very positive vibe out. Other perks include two raffles for people to actually join us on location when the project gets funded. Its a ten month out in the wilderness deal so company would be good.

At this point I don't have a pitch film but that I think is key. I'm planning on heading out in May of this year to shoot for that using DSLR's and will then attempt another crowdfunding project via KickStarter which I think is the better option for such, at least the one with the highest visitation analytics. The main project is slated to start principle photography in May 2014 by which time I will be able to revisit this thread and let you know how it all goes!

The key element to all this is social media. You CAN source a lot of funding there but it has to be done with a very diplomatic and subdued approach to the selling pitches. If I continually just rammed this down people's throats day in day out I don;t think it would ever get any supporters, but slowly, surely, it's getting there.

Oh, and if there are any potential Shark Guardians here......

Cheers,
Mark.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top