Crimson Workflow is available for download.

[Matthew Rogers]

so did Crimson, as far as FCP and Color are concerned, get completely outdated today? They told me in the booth that you can edit the proxies and then Color will automatically conform back to the R3Ds for grading and output.

Would really like to hear more about this because it would really open things up!

Matthew

 

[Gian Joon]

so did Crimson, as far as FCP and Color are concerned, get completely outdated today? They told me in the booth that you can edit the proxies and then Color will automatically conform back to the R3Ds for grading and output.

Shawn, When does that come in effect. That is the best thing that can happen to RED.

:tongue:

 

[Alex Carr]

Honestly Crimson will be in my toolbox for a while, Especially if the log and transfer only does Pro Res... Why not Online everything from Prores with Crimson to Uncompressed 2k, send to FCP and then grade in Color then roundtrip back to FCP and then Print HDCAM SR.

I really like Crimson, its a program that gives you the same choices as a Offline / online Edit would go. Otherwise your stuck in 1080 Pro res forever from the _M proxies... I doubt Color can reconnect to R3d's and then Render anything other than Pro Res, which is not good enough for Uncompressed 2k to HDCAM SR

 

[jieves]

Same here - Crismon is AWSOME - saved our asses on a current project.

 

[I Bloom]

Honestly Crimson will be in my toolbox for a while, Especially if the log and transfer only does Pro Res... Why not Online everything from Prores with Crimson to Uncompressed 2k, send to FCP and then grade in Color then roundtrip back to FCP and then Print HDCAM SR.

I really like Crimson, its a program that gives you the same choices as a Offline / online Edit would go. Otherwise your stuck in 1080 Pro res forever from the _M proxies... I doubt Color can reconnect to R3d's and then Render anything other than Pro Res, which is not good enough for Uncompressed 2k to HDCAM SR

I'm looking forward to the new build of Color, and I think it's going to be great. I plan on using it.

Crimson is good and it's about to rock even harder. FYI, it's not going anywhere

IBloom

 

[Robert Monaghan]

I doubt Color can reconnect to R3d's and then Render anything other than Pro Res, which is not good enough for Uncompressed 2k to HDCAM SR

A Quick Observation:

As you would guess, recompressing a compressed image degrades it. Projects that need visual effects and need to generate mattes, will run into a heap of trouble when moving footage in and out of Color if compressed. Even worse if they are traveling mattes.

I *do* think its a logical step to support imported R3D clips into Color. But it will prove to be a pretty frustrating problem if the workflow involves exporting compressed imagery out of Color. All of that time spent on building the mattes will be wasted. Not to mentioned several rounds of color correction trying to match the visual effects elements to the compressed R3D footage.

I imagine adding text, etc, would be problematic too, if staying in a compressed workflow.

my $0.02

bob.

 

[Alex Carr]

Thats my concern... Will Color be able to give me the options Redcine Does? I'm working with RAW material... Can Color Let me work with RAW material then export 4k - 2k DPX if I need to even though I did my offline Edit from Converted Proxies to Pro Res? It gets complicated... I just want to avoid Editing with Proxies at all costs... It really just sucks...

So Color has to integrate part of Ian's Program or something similar to achieve what Crimson & Redcine do. Color is a grading Program not a conforming Program...

Will this update only allow Proxies to be sent to Color and Only Pro res Exports?

Gluetools: I'm not happy the way Color needs to compress compressed material... Thats why I think Boasting Color can do what Ian's program does is a little far-fetched...

 

[Häakon]

if you have no scratch....you could do following....

-cut with transcoded Files
-export Fcp XML

I've seen this workflow outlined both here and in the demo video. I'm curious, can you cut just using the reference proxies themselves (without the need for transcoding first), or does that not work with Crimson? I really have no interest in taking the time to transcode my proxies only to have to turn around and transcode the R3D files again later. Thanks for the help!

 

[Alex Carr]

well its true you can do either that you like... work with proxies or work with Pro Res...

I hate proxies because I dont want to render everytime I move a proxy in a Pro res sequence... It really just plain sucks... You can convert them all beforehand or continuously render them over and over again taking longer than it would have to just convert them... See my point?

Converting the proxies to Pro res with compressor is one in the same as capturing your HDCAM 1080p24 at DV-Ntsc so you can offline edit... When I go to Online everything wheres the difference in whats going on here? Capture twice, the second time I only capture what I used in the Edit. Its nothing out of the ordinary...

Your very limited by working with Proxies only, especially the fact you cant watch anything High Res... It really makes Editing A Pain in the ass. I cannot work like that. And I won't.

 

[Häakon]

I guess the disconnect for me is that if I'm going to take the time to render all of my proxy files to prores at the beginning, I might as well just use redcine to render all of the R3Ds to prores 1080 and just be done with it. Then I can edit online, and as soon as my project is cut, I don't have to conform anything.

Obviously the pain with that approach is that I have to render everything - not just the files that I actually end up using in my final project - but you're telling me I should be rendering everything (albeit in a lower quality, I'm assuming?) at the beginning anyway. It just really seems like a total waste of time to me to have to do this twice. That's why, until FCP can just accept a true R3D file in its timeline, I'm wondering what benefit Crimson is gaining me.

(Believe me... I want to understand this, because the RED post workflow at the moment leaves an awful lot to be desired...)

 

[Jason Diamond]

The benefit of Crimson is keeping track of all your files and metadata for lo-res work and later conform and now potentially puppeting Red Alert!. unfortunately the options for all of us wanting to work with R3D files are pretty limited so you have to find the workflow that works for you and Crimson may or may not fit that workflow. find the tools and paths that support your style and workflow to deliver the product/vision you want.

 

[Alex Carr]

Everything on Mac is ok the workflow exists and I feel confident enough to Edit on Mac Pro 8 core, I just wont do it with Proxies.... Its slow even on a 8 core 2 edit with Proxies...

Basically If I shot a Film on HDCAM, I would need a HDCAM deck to ingest my footage. Using a Kona 3 I ingest all my footage to DV-NTSC so that I can hand off a FW400 drive to any of the Editors on any project and they can bring a DV Cut back to me and I can Online it to 1080 uncompressed by capturing only the Cut Sequences.

Crimson plays the role of the HDCAM deck and the Kona 3, except it only works on .R3D files.

Pro Res is an Offline Format, Its not good enough for most Deliveries. 1080 uncompressed is what you need to Master HDCAM at full quality. If you use Pro Res the quality is about 80% of an Uncompressed version of the same clip.

There are countless Advantages to Offline Editing, and Pro res is a HD Offline Format. Just like DV is for Standard Def. Uncompressed.

Basically I download Footage shot everyday and Back it up, then drop all _H proxies into Compressor and batch them at Pro Res 2k, or Fit them to 1080 if thats my end result.

Then I organize all the Pro Res clips by renaming in FCP Browser (not in Finder). I organize By Scene # SC23_Tk3 SC47_Tk2. So that the files outside FCP have the same names as the R3d file.

I then have full creative ability to Edit, log, add notes, export rough cuts in a reasonable amount of time, the list is endless...

Then when I'm happy with a Cut I take my XML to Crimson and Find all my R3d's then send the XML to Redcine to export up to any format I wish. That power is nonexistant on a Mac right now. Crimson Solves that problem. I use Crimson just like I use my HDCAM deck and Kona 3. I only output the shots I used, etc...

 

[Kenn Michael]

Excellent description.

 

[Häakon]

Basically I download Footage shot everyday and Back it up, then drop all _H proxies into Compressor and batch them at Pro Res 2k, or Fit them to 1080 if thats my end result.

Is that significantly faster than exporting all of your clips to 1080 Prores through REDCine?

 

[Kenn Michael]

Only if you're doing Full debayer from RedCine.

On an 8 core, using Compressor to convert the _H proxies takes the same amount of time as rendering out Standard (1/2 Res) debayer from RedCine.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Only if you're doing Full debayer from RedCine.

On an 8 core, using Compressor to convert the _H proxies takes the same amount of time as rendering out Standard (1/2 Res) debayer from RedCine.

Yes but use the _M files and it's really fast

 

[I Bloom]

I compress _M files on set to ProRes. My deliverable is an FCP project with proRes clips already organized and sunk. With R3D files on other drives and backed up.

Crimson let's you make important decisions after you cut, and allows you to bypass quicktime. Very important.

IBloom

 

[Ken Peltan]

Crimson Can't Open XML's w/ FCP Log & Transfer Footage In Them

Crimson Can't Open XML's w/ FCP Log & Transfer Footage In Them

Hi Ian,

Thanks for writing such an amazingly useful and needed program. I'm working on a post workflow for a RED indie feature. We would like to use the new RED FCP Log & Transfer function to create fully useable and presentable ProRes files. This part of the process works well.

However, for some reason if I export an XML from FCP that contains one or more clips that have been transcoded to ProRes using L&T, Crimson will not open that XML. If I take the exact same shot that was transcoded to ProRes using Red Alert and export an XML, Crimson opens it and everything works great.

Have you seen this happen? I looked at the XML's coming out of FCP and the L&T'd XML's do not have a link to the path url, i.e. the link to the actual file on disk. If the XML from FCP is not able to be imported into Crimson, this is a big, big issue if we want to use Crimson to create 2K log DPX files for film color correction (if we get to that point).

I'm not sure if this is something that you can fix (the import into Crimson) or if this is an inherent problem with footage brought into FCP with L&T, and the resulting XML. This seems odd. Any ideas?

 

[I Bloom]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for writing such an amazingly useful and needed program. I'm working on a post workflow for a RED indie feature. We would like to use the new RED FCP Log & Transfer function to create fully useable and presentable ProRes files. This part of the process works well.

However, for some reason if I export an XML from FCP that contains one or more clips that have been transcoded to ProRes using L&T, Crimson will not open that XML. If I take the exact same shot that was transcoded to ProRes using Red Alert and export an XML, Crimson opens it and everything works great.

Have you seen this happen? I looked at the XML's coming out of FCP and the L&T'd XML's do not have a link to the path url, i.e. the link to the actual file on disk. If the XML from FCP is not able to be imported into Crimson, this is a big, big issue if we want to use Crimson to create 2K log DPX files for film color correction (if we get to that point).

I'm not sure if this is something that you can fix (the import into Crimson) or if this is an inherent problem with footage brought into FCP with L&T, and the resulting XML. This seems odd. Any ideas?

Does seem odd. Must be some changes in the XML based on their L&T footage, I'll have to look into it. Meanwhile compressor's gonna take good care of you.

Ian

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I looked at the XML's coming out of FCP and the L&T'd XML's do not have a link to the path url, i.e. the link to the actual file on disk.

Yup. I fail to understand why anyone is using Log and Transfer.

Please enlighten me.