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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Crimson Workflow is available for download.

if i wanted to:

- shoot RED
- cut with transcoded QTs in Final Cut (transcode the .r3d using compressor to ProResHQ)
- send out an EDL for the color correction facility to work on baselight for colorizing

Is there anything that I need CRIMSON for in this chain?
 
skipdivils said:
if i wanted to:

- shoot RED
- cut with transcoded QTs in Final Cut (transcode the .r3d using compressor to ProResHQ)
- send out an EDL for the color correction facility to work on baselight for colorizing

Is there anything that I need CRIMSON for in this chain?
Click to expand...

if you have no scratch....you could do following....

-cut with transcoded Files
-export Fcp XML
-use Crimson to get DPX files only of the used footage (redcine RA/redline should be installed)

-export EDL from FCP

take your DPX and EDL to Online Station
and baselight cant read r3d files natively so you need the dpx files anyway, instead of exporting all your footage to dpx, this way you just have dpx files of material you used(you will save a couple of TB of storage this way)


best would be to download crimson and some footy from redrelay and test this workflow with 3 or 4 shots..
 
skipdivils said:
thanks k. great idea. i am wondering if using crimson to make the DPX files will provide the baselight system with the best DPX files possible (i.e. the most dynamic range still intact). testing is a good idea of course. appreciate the help.
Click to expand...

crimson doesnt render.....its redcine or redline (you can choose)...crimson is just a smart ass workflowmanager...

to get the best dpx files read the redlog vs. pdlog thread
 
skipdivils said:
if i wanted to:

- shoot RED
- cut with transcoded QTs in Final Cut (transcode the .r3d using compressor to ProResHQ)
- send out an EDL for the color correction facility to work on baselight for colorizing

Is there anything that I need CRIMSON for in this chain?
Click to expand...

Regarding transcoding, I notice it's been mentioned several times by other members and Ian even says he does this in the Crimson Demo. I'm curious, is there any advantage transcoding the .r3d files using Compressor before using Crimson? How about using Crimson along with the original Red Quicktime proxies?

Appreciate the help on this!
 
If you have shot a project. Let's say 30h of footage.
You make the offline using the Red proxies (as far i know you would'nt have to render these???
Project ending up about 90 minutes.
You use crimson to get the dpx files ( in case you don't use scratch).
How long would it take to get these dpx files to be rendered out of redcine????
In case you'd use 1 machine.
Would you be able to use more rendering machines???

I suppose it would be 12,5 days with one. (8s/frame) ??
 
sven said:
If you have shot a project. Let's say 30h of footage.
You make the offline using the Red proxies (as far i know you would'nt have to render these???
Project ending up about 90 minutes.
You use crimson to get the dpx files ( in case you don't use scratch).
How long would it take to get these dpx files to be rendered out of redcine????
In case you'd use 1 machine.
Would you be able to use more rendering machines???

I suppose it would be 12,5 days with one. (8s/frame) ??
Click to expand...

you can use more then 1 machine with redline (i didnt test,but others did)
 
sven said:
If you have shot a project. Let's say 30h of footage.
You make the offline using the Red proxies (as far i know you would'nt have to render these???
Project ending up about 90 minutes.
You use crimson to get the dpx files ( in case you don't use scratch).
How long would it take to get these dpx files to be rendered out of redcine????
In case you'd use 1 machine.
Would you be able to use more rendering machines???

I suppose it would be 12,5 days with one. (8s/frame) ??
Click to expand...

Given that situation Sven. It sounds like Scratch would save you much money and time.

IBloom
 
Charles Adams said:
Regarding transcoding, I notice it's been mentioned several times by other members and Ian even says he does this in the Crimson Demo. I'm curious, is there any advantage transcoding the .r3d files using Compressor before using Crimson? How about using Crimson along with the original Red Quicktime proxies?

Appreciate the help on this!
Click to expand...

Hi Charles,

There are a few difficulties currently with cutting Redcode Proxies directly, I'll list a few:

Size: all of the Redcode must be available to the system in order for the proxies to continue to access them for a cut. Prores is smaller, and in many situations it's likely that all of the prores transcoded footage can be stored on one drive.

Throughput: there is a high cost to the system to move Redcode and decompress it even at 1K _M proxies.

Rendering: Redcode is currently a one way codec. It's really just a "dec" with no "co", in part because rendering to a Bayer Raw format doesn't make sense. This means a timeline set to Redcode as it compressor has no means to render things like crossfades or text overlays, they appear as blank green frames. One solution is to run Redcode proxies on a timeline with the ProRes compressor, but there is an on the fly transcoding tax here that can effect realtime performance or worse require a render.

When we transcode proxies to ProRes, we are creating a second level of proxies that are easier to handle in many ways. These files are still proxies. They look pretty darn good but we will want to eventually get back to the original R3D's using Scratch or Crimson so that we can grade and fully debayer the frames in our final cut.

The preferred method of transcoding to ProRes is to create a simple ProRes droplet using compressors droplet feature. We then select all of the _M or _H proxies in our footage and drag it into the droplet.
1K _M proxies transcode very fast, when I DIT I often am racing the production to see if I can transcode faster then they can hand over new footage.

All that said, some people do cut Redcode proxies directly. It really depends on the situation. A greenscreen TVC project I just finished, only needs selects, and will do all of it's finishing with high end compositing software. In their case they are cutting Redcode directly, and then outputting image sequences of the shots they need, with handles.

IBloom
 
ibloom said:
Given that situation Sven. It sounds like Scratch would save you much money and time.

IBloom
Click to expand...

Yes Ibloom,

but let's say I'd like to use a baselight or quantel instead, how much time would be required you guess to make these dpx files with crimson and redcine to get them ready for grading.
 
sven said:
Yes Ibloom,

but let's say I'd like to use a baselight or quantel instead, how much time would be required you guess to make these dpx files with crimson and redcine to get them ready for grading.
Click to expand...

It's depending on your system. But still the better part of 24 hours at least for full debayer of 90 minutes.

karapetkov said:
OMG, this site really scares me.
Click to expand...

??

Ian
 
Hi Ian,
I was editing my project using the proxies, but it was too difficult not being able to do speed alters, transitions, etc., so I have converted to Pro Res. 280 Gigs took 7 hours with the MBP. I used Media Manager in FCP. Now, do I change my sequence settings in FCP to match the Prores 422 (that would make sense)... and all the effects I lay out there will be easily transferred once reconnecting to the high quality footage when onlining?
 
hrstyler said:
and all the effects I lay out there will be easily transferred once reconnecting to the high quality footage when onlining?
Click to expand...

Man, that's a good question.

I think my logic right now is to do a rough cut with proxies - and render that to 1080P ProRes, then round trip to Color... and then do all the intricate edits, fades and speedchanges, titles and effects.

I wonder what RED thinks the future "fantasy" workflow is supposed to look like. I know they've been talking about R3D support in many apps - but I'm not sure what that means really. Does it mean any app will be able to debayer and transcode by using REDCODE libraries?
 
Hmmm, yes good questions from you too... I am feeling like I'm learning a new language with all this stuff, but a lot of it does make sense. So, when you're suggesting a rough cut with proxies, that's what I was doing, problem is that it's a music vid and most of it is treated (ie speed alters, reframings, transitions etc) and to get a real feel of the pacing I need to see it with those effects in, even to do a nice rough cut. It was all stuttery and 'not flowing' with the proxies. So, anyhow, hopefully the effects will slide over so to speak.
 
PS- Is there a way to know (email) when people post replies in this forum? It would be easier than checking in randomly.
Thanks!
 
hrstyler said:
PS- Is there a way to know (email) when people post replies in this forum? It would be easier than checking in randomly.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

The answer to your question is yes, effects should transfer BUT if you do speed changes you MUST render complete takes, otherwise your in and out points will be off. In the future I'd like to check for this and only takes that have speed changes will needs be rendered completely. But for now....

IBloom
 
hrstyler said:
a rough cut with proxies, that's what I was doing, problem is that it's a music vid
Click to expand...

Then I'd probably do a super-rough cut where you eliminate footage you know is trash to reduce the big render time as much as possible. It's a 4 minute song. You ought to be able get it down to 10 to 30 minutes of footage before you get real creative. Render that overnight to ProRes. Then just online from there.

You can always go back to your proxy sequences to look for additional footage if you need something you didn't transform the first time around. Just render that little bit, import and keep on going...
 
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