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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Crazy Epic Artifacting

T

Teague Kennedy

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I am having REALLY significant artifacting under certain conditions, and I'm trying to find out why. Here's what I've found: If I shoot a scene that is visually complex and brightly exposed or back lit (but not clipped) I get insane artifacting at any data rate. I have included a link to 2 R3D's. I shot them both with an Epic and Canon 24-70L. They were both shot at 24mm (one zooms in to 70). The normal motion was shot at 24p/800iso/RC6:1/around f11/ 1 over 120th second exposure / 5600K . The slow-mo was shot the same except at 120fps and RC10:1. I don't have a red rocket but I see the artifacts in RedCine at full debayer and also have tried exporting quick times / tiff sequences / and doing an AMA link in AVID and exporting from there, and I always see INTENSE artifacting under these conditions. I wonder if this is a problem with my export settings (I've tried everything) or if it is in the R3D itself. Does anyone have any experience with this problem? I would appreciate if anyone could play with the R3D and tell me if you are seeing what I am seeing (if you are you won't miss it--we're talking first gen flip cam here)

links:

regular motion:

http://web.me.com/lostmanscreek/Site_90/Major_artifacting.html

slow motion:

http://web.me.com/lostmanscreek/Site_92/example_2.html
 
wow that IS crazy. look at the intersection of the shirt and the chair. Looks like DVX100 quality! I have also never seen this before- something seems wrong with the camera as all of the settings on the R3D file look good to me. Seems normally exposed, etc.... Definitely contact RED. Please keep us updated.
 
Luigi, my guess is that reducing the f-stop improves the footage because it blurs the background thereby reducing the visual complexity of the shot. I think that if this is really an issue that epic has it should be addressed and not band-aided. Suppose I want a deep depth of field in an outdoor scene? do I underexpose so as not to create insane artifacting? How do I know at what point the scene becomes acceptable? I cannot do test shots at every location. I shoot doc, not narrative.
 
Teague Kennedy said:
Luigi, my guess is that reducing the f-stop improves the footage because it blurs the background thereby reducing the visual complexity of the shot. I think that if this is really an issue that epic has it should be addressed and not band-aided. Suppose I want a deep depth of field in an outdoor scene? do I underexpose so as not to create insane artifacting? How do I know at what point the scene becomes acceptable? I cannot do test shots at every location. I shoot doc, not narrative.
Click to expand...

Teague,
sorry for my bad English.
I understand what you mean, I had these defects only outdoors and special situations, I was scared too. They are often filmed in the mountains with snow, sun, shadows.
I got around them using at least one ND filter 0.3.Con this can drop as low as f22. Or go to f2 without problems. But again it is my choice.
Maybe someone can reply with more details.

Luigi
 
We have been talking with Red support team about this issue on 2.0.5. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a solid answer as of yet. We have been suggested to update the firmware to 3.0.0, but we're hesitant to do so until we are told by Red this problem has been addressed on a firmware. As much as we'd like to have the RC3/RG3 and all the nice added features, there have been some posts about issues with that newest build. We have gone back to 2.0.2 (alpha) since we had the least number of issues on it. We're going to start a new thread tomorrow to further discuss.
 
I can make this happen any time I want. It is very repeatable. Also I am using firmware 3.0
 
Teague Kennedy said:
I can make this happen any time I want. It is very repeatable. Also I am using firmware 3.0
Click to expand...

Teague -- I took a look at the R3D's you posted. You are at iso 800, i'd be interested in what your results are when expose at iso 320. There is a lot of information in the scene and not much information in the shadows of your sweatshirt in both shots. At 24 fps, you may also want to go up to RC 3:1 to save as much shadow detail as possible.
 
Nook, I can reproduce this with any shot that has high detail and high light (but not clipped). Take your cam outside and shoot into brightly lit trees with a wide lens (if background is de-focused you won't see as much). Any part of the frame that is, say, below 50% light level will have artifiacts.

Dylan, in most cases it is not really noticeable on led, but in some cases it is if you look very carefully.

Matthew, I will try at iso 320 3:1
 
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